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Human foolishness is cyclic. We're repeating ancient patterns. Right now the west is in decline, and while I'd get some pushback for referring to it as a meta-empire, that's what the west is. Anyway, empires apex. The US particularly hit its apex in the late 80s to mid 90s, depending on which rubber ruler you use.
After that, every generation was bound to be worse off than the one that came before it, either in real terms, or in equity. We're experiencing that now.
And when people face loss, particularly of things they take for granted, like is happening with the white middle class in the US, they go looking for people to blame.
And that's how fascism happens, ladies and gents.
As economic fortunes of the majority class (petit borgie) sour, messages like white supremacist messages will come out of the woodwork.
Blame the blacks.
Blame the queers.
Blame the immigrants.
Blame the commies.
Blame everyone but ourselves for the mess we find ourselves in.
Such is the rallying cry of the hopelessly angry, frightened and lost.
There's not much to do at this point but ride it out - our window for heading it off closed about 20 years ago - at least in the United States.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote: As economic fortunes of the majority class (petit borgie) sour, messages like white supremacist messages will come out of the woodwork.
You must not be paying attention to the numbers on the economy. The middle class is doing as well as it's done in the last 50 years. Unemployment is virtually non-existent, including for minorities.
honey the codewitch wrote: Blame the blacks.
Blame the queers.
Blame the immigrants.
Blame the commies.
You forgot to include the Jews. White supremacists hate Jews especially.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
modified 4-Jan-20 20:14pm.
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Oh how fun.
All of this is true if you ignore the fact that we just stopped counting a bunch of unemployed people and the middle class is smaller as a percentage than it was 50 years ago and keeps getting smaller. More and more are joining the ranks of what used to be occupied by the poorer among the blue collar set.
Meanwhile, middle income earner wages have remained relatively stagnant compared to top earners ever since the 1970s, while cost of living and housing especially, has increased. This is part of why two person earning households are the norm now. it didn't used to be that way. Feminists might call it progress. Workers looking at the big picture might call it getting screwed.
Income inequality is runaway in the united states, and most of its citizens have no idea how bad it is because it's not talked about by the teevee bobbleheads.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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Why should income be "equal?" Everybody does a different job with differing levels of competency.
Some jobs require more education and skills than other jobs.
I've never understood this notion that we all should be equal in every respect.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I'm not saying it should be equal. I'm saying what value does it add for CEOs to make hundreds of times what workers do? versus say 20 times? 50 times? I think it's fair to consider diminishing returns here.
And what value does it add shifting the tax burden downward, rather than upward?
Progressive taxation is necessary for a functioning capitalist economy. The chicago school brats seem to have forgotten that.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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These are all good questions. But that's how a free market works. People get paid based upon what the market will bear, That's also what determines how much things cost for the consumer.
A CEO can make hundreds of times what the guy who mops the floor makes because he's hundreds of times more difficult to replace. Simple supply and demand laws apply here.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I believe the notion of a free market is either a myth or a scam depending on who is selling the idea and why.
The reason is this: All human activity has the potential to distort markets. No market can be separate from any interaction with it. Simply buying a product ultimately raises the price for the next consumer, unless the company produces another product to replace it (supply and demand microcosmically) - every activity. Even just having capital creates impact on markets. This is how neighborhoods get gentrified.
Laws impact markets. Buying impacts markets. Selling impacts markets. Looking at a market side ways will impact it (see doom and gloom predictions tanking the dow)
There's no free market. Every market is endlessly distorted.
People disagree on what should be "allowed" to distort markets, but that itself is just another distortion of markets.
The markets are currently being distorted overall in favor of the top earners, as Adam Smith famously predicted happens in all capitalist systems, absent adequate progressive taxation.
We can see this tied directly to income inequality.
The more it grows, the more the capitalist class have their thumbs on the scale
And the reason for all of their sophisticated sounding economic voodoo is to distract you from that plain and simple fact.
Of course, if you're one of the (rarer every day) americans that are doing well, you have every reason to believe all of that hoodoo because it's self actualizing, regardless of how true it is. (There are a lot of reasons people do well or not, and merit is maybe middling on that list at best)
Edit: I have to run for now. I've enjoyed our chat.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote: There's no free market.
I'd suggest there's no 'efficient' market - and hope there's room for some kind of ethical trade.
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I think I understand where you're coming from. For my part, I'm not sure if markets are efficient or not due to their "organic" nature. What I mean by that is that markets are a form of Complex Adaptive System.
Such systems have redundancy, like 20 outfits selling the same product, but also resilience. If one goes out of business you can still get your gear.
So whether that's inefficient or not, as an example, I think depends on which rubber ruler you use.
Just my $0.02, as a CAS geek.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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'The Wealth of Nations' made sense when it was written but is irrelevant now. Markets are not fair, or open or free
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Fundamentally, CEOs get a lot of money because they can decide their wages. I believe firmly we should have laws that say the CEO can't earn more than X times the lowest paid employee. capitalism doesn't magically pay people what they are worth. It hands power to the few and leave the many behind, unless society has laws to control it.
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Why isn't there some sort of upvote button for me to use here?
You are spot on. The gap between the rich and poor is growing. People like Beznos make billions from basically no work, while his workers work in terrible conditions. That's not how you make a society.
No one is saying we should all earn the same BUT you build a society by taxing the rich and helping the poor.
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Quote: Meanwhile, middle income earner wages have remained relatively stagnant compared to top earners ever since the 1970s, while cost of living and housing especially, has increased.
The principal cause of this was a significant event that occurred in 1971.
And no, I'm not talking about the release of Tarkus.
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Australia is also reporting a surplus, by cutting services to people in need. The middle class is being hollowed out. Most people now are either well off, or poor.
Interestingly, the anti Islam movement was spearheaded by people who hoped hating Muslims would be a gateway drug to hating Jews but I think WWII movies have made people actually unable to see the difference between hating one religion and another. But everyone knows hating Jews is bad.
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Yes, my view on this is that the USA has been coasting on past glory for some time. What Trump has done is made clear to the rest of the world that they don't *need* America, and as such, he's contributing to American decline on the world stage.
And basically, the GFC happened because capitalism is f*cking us all, so those in power started telling us to blame basically all the people on your list. The rise of Trump is the voice of people capitalism left behind, because they are generally too stupid to see where the issue is.
Australia had a national anti Islam movement in 2014. I got involved in fighting that. Since then, I've had people stalk me and threaten to kill my kids. We keep voting in the people causing our problems. Humanity is stupid. I have no hope for the future.
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OK, so the Soapbox is gone?
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Yep and the Lounge is now a Parser master class.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Hmmmm.... trying to work out what this means.....
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It means that every once in a while somebody risks their account by posting about politics! MSGA!!!
(Make Soapbox Great Again)
I, for one, like Roman Numerals.
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Ah, OK. Well, given that society is basically burning to the ground, and people are utterly sh*t, everywhere, I'd vote in favour of having a place where I don't have to deal with that. I've had far right figures stalk and threaten my family for years. I could do with a break
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Let's wait until the figures are right 
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Amen.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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DRHuff wrote: somebody risks their account by posting about politics!
It's only a risk if you don't have sufficient points. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Wait - didn't Griff just post about the MVP's and MVE's being out. I thought they were all caught talking politics and Chris gave them the boot.
Maybe I should read more than the headline of the post... 
I, for one, like Roman Numerals.
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Maybe you need a new parser.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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