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Rage wrote: We all know what Marc means
I certainly don't because I've pointed out to him that it's legal and he hasn't commented on that aspect.
Rage wrote: I am currently paying 45% taxes on my incomes,
Ouch!! Guess you're the one paying for free healthcare.
But instead of everyone complaining about it how about we change the laws?
However, does anyone realize the benefit of them avoiding taxes? It allows larger profits and lower costs to consumer. In the end, the consumer pays 100% of the cost so if they can save some money, some of that will be reflected to the consumer.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: It allows larger profits and lower costs to consumer. In the end, the consumer pays 100% of the cost so if they can save some money, some of that will be reflected to the consumer.
Holy cow!
I think you need to change the colour of the lenses in your glasses!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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ZurdoDev wrote: However, does anyone realize the benefit of them avoiding taxes? It allows larger profits and lower costs to consumer. In the end, the consumer pays 100% of the cost so if they can save some money, some of that will be reflected to the consumer.
The point is... we are not their consumers anymore... we are their product
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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True. And if you object to that, stop using their services.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Looks like it is not true... (see answer below) 
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: we are their product
I am Amazon's product? 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: However, does anyone realize the benefit of them avoiding taxes? It allows larger profits and lower costs to consumer. In the end, the consumer pays 100% of the cost so if they can save some money, some of that will be reflected to the consumer.
Not sure what you mean by this.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Rage wrote: and 0,076% of turnover
I think you mean 7.6% of "turnover". (you forgot to multiply by 100 before appending the '%'.)
Businesses the world-over are allowed to deduct certain expenses from turnover, like employee salaries, cost-of-sales and the like. That then becomes net-income before taxes or "profit". Seems reasonable to me. Hence the 27.5% taxes on net-income. That also seems reasonable, to me.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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No, there is a factor 1,000 between turnover and their declared income.
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Sorry, you're right. Missed some 0's somewhere. 
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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ZurdoDev wrote: I just don't get British humour.
Yeah, that's one of the many disadvantages of being a foreigner. 
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Quote: one of the many
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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congratulations to alphabet.
that 1T$, came from people that paid them, so obviously they have something that people want to buy.
... is that not the point of starting a business?
What have they done wrong that any business [even one with a lot less zero's] wouldn't also do (and often has done) given the same opportunities?
So once again: congratulations to alphabet for achieving what every other business wants
... and also wouldn't hesitate to do if they had the best in-demand secret sauce.
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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Um, actually, it's the valuation of the company, calculated by the share price.
It has nothing to do with how much money they make (except in that if they make a lot, more people want to buy shares). Share prices rise when people are willing to gamble that they will rise further; it's almost completely disjoint from the company itself.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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oops, yeah.
but then again the valuation is somewhat/partially based on the [increasing] revenue.
and, it's still what you average hobbyist would want for their little project. Bill down in garage with his techno dodads, the McDonald kids flipping burgers, some dude in a turtle neck drinking coffee with another bloke that runs an enthusiast magazine...
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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Sure, success is nice, and paying taxes is no fun.
But if a lot of your success is based on mistreatment of your customers, and you don't pay all your taxes, you're putting a big "KICK ME!" sign on your back.
And I'm always happy to oblige such an emphatic request.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: But if a lot of your success is based on mistreatment of your customers
again it's scale:
- if you've got 100 customers and 5 complain (5%) who see's it? that news dies in milliseconds
- if you've got 100,000,000 customers and 1,000,000 (1%) complain social media goes crazy for a week
Mark_Wallace wrote: ... and you don't pay all your taxes,
again which company would not hesitate to do (does) likewise when that door is open? Heck, I've written off a bar fridge, my own holidays, and ** shudup you fool **
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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lopatir wrote: - if you've got 100,000,000 customers and 1,000,000 (1%) complain not one of them knows what you're doing with their data until there's a leak, then another leak, then another leak...
How can you possibly defend their behaviour?
And your writing off a few hundred dollars is hardly the same as the big four writing off tens of billions each.
Think how many people could be hired to teach religion in schools, for that money.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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it's all about scale, bigger you are easier to throw mud that will stick to it.Mark_Wallace wrote: Think how many people could be hired to teach religion in schools, for that money.
sadly they would more likely be taught tax avoidance (which at least is legal as opposed to tax evasion which isn't.)
- again it's just scale: my (and 100,000 other small businesses) beer fridge, alphabets private jet(s).
what's the difference?
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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lopatir wrote: - again it's just scale: my (and 100,000 other small businesses) beer fridge, alphabets private jet(s).
what's the difference?
You pay most of your taxes.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'd get me a private jet, but the parking really ain't cheap 
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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Getting shouted at by Swedish teenagers is a bit of a downer, too.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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lopatir wrote: (which at least is legal as opposed to tax evasion which isn't.)
What is and isn't legal tends to change with time.
Ethics are an evolutionary handicap.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Yes, Alphabet, Apple, Amazon, Facebook and other big (tech) companies do what other companies would do too, given the chance.
That doesn't make it less evil.
People kill, and so do other people, and it's just what every killer wants, but that doesn't mean killing is good.
And not every company mistreats employees, sells their customer data or sells at ridiculous prices.
The point with these big companies is that they've grown so big, other businesses can't compete anymore.
You can choose not to use Alphabet services, and more people do it, but there really aren't good alternatives for all services or the alternatives are evil too.
These companies, that are so rich you can't even imagine it, buy startups and kill them off, just to stifle innovation and competition.
These CEOs are the richest people in the world, richer than many countries, yet they underpay and mistreat employees, just to make even more money.
It's easy to say "just find another job", but these aren't the people that have so many job offers lined up.
Companies like Amazon even save on employee security, just so the richest man alive can become even richer.
These companies take your data and tell you they value your privacy, meanwhile they (secretly) sell it to the highest bidder.
Facebook or Twitter allowed for advertisers to target neo-nazis specifically.
Exxon did environment research in the 70's and 80's and concluded they were destroying it, instead of finding cleaner ways to do business they kept the research hidden and lobbied for new laws that would make sure they could continue what they were doing.
Microsoft helped China with "AI" projects that are used to monitor and oppress people.
Apple helped the Chinese government by taking an app down in Hong Kong, just so they could do business there.
Facebook has access to billions of people and they decide what you can and cannot see, that is almost literally the power to shape the world.
These companies are knowingly and willingly destroying the world and peoples lives just for some extra revenue.
And with their money they can bribe lawmakers or pressure governments, that's why many of these companies are still legal.
Just because it's legal what they're doing (and mind you, it often isn't, but the fines are spare change for these companies) doesn't mean they're not evil.
I want to pay less taxes too, but I don't have the money to pressure the government into agreeing with me, and that's an unfair advantage for these big companies.
Don't underestimate these companies, I'm sure even governments are afraid of what they can do.
I think this is where capitalism fails.
It's not a fair system, it's a system where the rich get richer and the poor ultimately get poorer.
Although it's probably one of the few systems where at least a lot of people can have decent incomes and living standards.
It's just not equal chances for everyone.
Too bad we don't have anything better yet.
That said, it's not ALL evil what they're doing and their services are often very good (which is how they grew so big), but I think it's dangerous and short-sighted to say "well, that's just business and others would do it too."
These companies are rich, mighty and potentially dangerous, and they should be kept in check.
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Sander Rossel wrote: Too bad we don't have anything better yet.
We do; you and I could work together, instead of compete; makes us both more resilient.
I throw my batteries in the grey bin, along with my glass and paper; I'm not going to recycle if the sh*t is simply shipped to Africa, and if machines are built to die within 10 years. I don't care about the environment, there's no need to; whatever we do to improve the air-quality becomes a reason for Schiphol to expand.
The playing field cannot be equal, since our best companies would "leave the country" (and supposedly leave the rich consumer for greener fields). Our economy is based on blackmail; without the health-insurance, I'd be bankrupt. Not because my medication is hard to make, but because it is patented and comes with a 700%+ profit margin.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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