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I am not saying "over my dead body". I had an iPhone for many years and currently use a not rooted Android smart phone.
I partially agree with you in your first paragraph.
But in the second...
Chris Maunder wrote: I think Google / Apple have discussed this one ...
...
...
That's it. Start to end. You can delete the app. You can wipe any trace of the ID from your phone. The ID was never associated with you in any way. There is NO GPS logging.
Anyone see any holes in this?
Apart from "Google / Apple" and "The ID was never associated with you in any way." in such a little text? Seriously?
Several years and many articles / reports confirm that is a bit of an oximoron.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Let me clarify:
Google/Apple (I think) have discussed the "use bluetooth to detect proximity". I wasn't suggesting we use a Google/Apple app.
I actually also said such an app is actually not even needed - they already track us really, really well. (sure, not indoors, and not to within 6 ft, but track us enough to know that I was standing inline outside the grocery store that had 2 positive cases in that same line)
I think of this purely as a technical issue. The political, social, epidemiological issues merely complicate the process. Much like users. <shudder>
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Google/Apple (I think) have discussed the "use bluetooth to detect proximity". I wasn't suggesting we use a Google/Apple app.
Sorry if I miss-read something.
Chris Maunder wrote: actually also said such an app is actually not even needed - they already track us really, really well. (sure, not indoors, and not to within 6 ft, but track us enough to know that I was standing inline outside the grocery store that had 2 positive cases in that same line)
exactly. Although I am not really that positive that even that would help that much. As Member79xxx said, it only might work (no certainty at all) if everyone is carrying a working smart phone.
If not... I think it can do more harm than help.
People starting to have symptoms that check the app and see "no potential contact registered" are going to think... "oh, ok, I haven't been exposed, so it is not CV" and this thinking is going to make them even more dangerous.
I think it is like with autonomous driving, it will only work, once ALL the cars are autonomous. As long as there is a mix on the road, forget it, the number of accidents will ramp up like hell.
For me the best protection we can use is just to switch our brains on, be careful without panicing and pay attention to what we do.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: the best protection we can use is just to switch our brains on,
Whoa, whoa, WHOA.
Now you're just talkin' crazy.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Looking at the news and how people was behaving...
It was not that obvious 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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The problem isn't in your approach. The problem is that whatever solutions are created will include unnecessary features and data handling that lend themselves to misuse.
Normally I'm an optimist, but the Wild West of mobile app development does not give me confidence.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote: include unnecessary features
Sounds like you are saying someone could create a framework for this.
My plan is to live forever ... so far so good
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It's a combination of YAGNI (You Ain't Gonna Need It) and "since we're here, and we've got 'this', let's record 'that' too". There's a tendency in any kind of data acquisition application to record everything possible.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Should you be alerted if you came into contact with someone that came into contact with a confirmed case, i.e. 2nd-hand contact (or even 3rd-hand contact)? If so, then all your close-encounter data needs to be harvested, which removes the veil of security in the original proposal.
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I tend to agree with you, @chris-maunder - it's obvious that 'standard' contact tracing mechanisms don't work with something as infective as covid-19 and if we don't want one of extended lockdown or health system overload, we as societies (whichever one we happen to live in) need to change things about how we operate, whether that be apps like this or/and wearing masks full time (as happened in places in North America after the flu of 1918/19 - it only lasted a year or so, though, until masks were discarded). And having had first and second hand experience of covid-19, ICUs and ventilators, I can say I don't want people to have to go through all that if it can be avoided.
At the same time, I understand the reluctance to trust organisations like governments or commercial entities like Google and Apple. I know their interests and desires aren't going to be aligned with mine (except through occasional lucky coincidence), but I think this is one area where they might be pulling the same way...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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I don't like giving companies the meta-data to do contact-tracing, because the market is quickly pivoting to make huge profits off of the technology, with a strong disregard for the mid-term consequences.
It's not even the privacy concerns I'm worried about, I'm only worried about enabling governments to identify dissidents in a novel way. What if it gets used to contact-trace minorities? You could, in theory, identify and target any minority; information that can be used to push almost any political agenda.
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Yeah...I see holes....
Let's start with #1.
The "only on your device" is something you won't know. They also said you can recreate your GUID so that means the police can recreate your GUID.
Then...when you get diagnosed as a COVD carrier and you smoosh the button...who's to say your phone won't scream at every other phone in the office...or the 120 kids are in your class...? Let's shut down businesses!! When this "6 foot" rule is being incorrectly applied as a cure all.
The 6 foot rule came from an study on airplanes of "how close is too close" and they found that less than 6 feet for more than 10 minutes was too close. They didn't come up with any graphs that showed that 7 feet for 12 minutes is safe. They are finally starting to figure out now that all you have to do is walk through an area where an infected person has breathed and you can get it. No sneezing or coughing needed. It sounds like COVD has a very high replication rate so even a small viral load can overwhelm your antibody production.
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Using the app is not the problem.
Someone can build a simple scanner that records all GUIDs in a given area.
Link that say, to a camera and now you have a face with the GUID.
The next time you see that GUID, you can look for a face.
That GUID is specific to a phone/person.
Remember the WiFi trash cans in London ?
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Well, to get back to the original subject/proposal;
Anyone see any holes in this?
One of the big problems I see, is that BT is also working through glass and through plexiglass screens. So the "near for 15 mins" parameter should somehow account for that.
I broke my head over this, the last couple of days, but couldn't come up with a solution. Anyone?
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Apparently the Australian tracking app doesn't track location, but they can't release the source code to prove it because "security reasons".
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That's not how security works... 
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I'd rather die as a free man than live forever as a slave.
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I'd prefer not to die at all 
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Actually, I've heard the Google plans to slipstream the tracking application as essentially an OS update.
Truth,
James
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... a 2020 planner!
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain
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you can still plan your travels to the kitchen, etc.
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Nope. I'm banned from opening the fridge...
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain
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Johnny J. wrote: Nope. I'm banned from opening the fridge...
So you need to plan even more carefully.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I was going to say a bathroom scale.
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Given the experience most of us are having with 2020, it's probably classed as pornography. Or animal husbandry. Wifery. Whatever.
Software Zen: delete this;
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