|
You'll see the benefit when your hard drive melts down and you need to get the source of the project you're working on. An off site repository is a must.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
|
|
|
|
|
previously I backed up to zip files on the server which are subsequently backed up to tape and held off site
|
|
|
|
|
Except that's not SOURCE CONTROL, that's BACKING up - two entirely different things. You should be doing both.
First, assuming you find yourself working in a multi-developer environment... ZIP files does noting for you. How do you reliably get the other developer's changes?
Second, what if you made changes all week and the customer wants you to roll back a portion of it? You can't unless you're zipping every half day. Even then, you lose half a days work.
Third, like someone else mentioned, how would you branch / merge? You can't without source control.
I agree that source control is tedious, kludgy, and a real mess. I STILL don't get TFS on-line, but in VS it works ok. Having said that, I would Never work without it.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
|
|
|
|
|
I know it isn't source control.
I have always previously worked in a team of one - me.
The customer has never asked me to roll back a portion of it as I always keep the customer in the loop with what I am doing and plan to do.
I have never had a reason to branch/merge
I understand why people use source control - I am venting because I am having to use it.
|
|
|
|
|
RugbyLeague wrote: I am venting because I am having to use it.
Believe me, the day will come that you will say:
"Thank God they made me use it".
Oh, and try to compile and commit the changes every day. The benefit may become more palpable.
Plus, there are source controls that are easier and more intuitive to work than others. Some are a real breeze to work with. Which one are you using?
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
----
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
|
|
|
|
|
Even when I worked in a team of one I found source control essential. It is great when you realise you screwed something up six versions ago and you can go back and see exactly what changes you made.
Yes, I resisted at first. My boss wanted me to use Bazaar. Despite what others may say, I like subversion and I use it for everything.
Backups? Easy. Just back up tthe respository.
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
|
|
|
|
|
I don't doubt it has it's uses - I just can't think of any time in the last 26 years I have been at this where it would have saved me.
|
|
|
|
|
My source control is just to make a zip-backup with format:
Projekt_name - Timestamp - Brief description of the higlights made that day
With it I have the "Branching" and "Tagging" functionality you describe.
The only one missing is "Diffing" but, since in the PLC-World it is very uncommon that more than a person works in the very same programm, I don't really need it. The only one making changes it's me.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
very much like my previous method which worked for me since I stopped using 12" mag tapes
|
|
|
|
|
AMEM
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
----
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
|
|
|
|
|
RugbyLeague wrote: I loathe any kind of source control - I have never had any actual cause to use
it
I thought that, too, until I had to uninstall/reinstall a product and discovered the app I had been working on was deleted in the process. I know, why didn't I have it backed up? Because the laptop was on a corporate image and I had limited control over what I could do.
I was able to get a working copy of the DLL, reverse it and rebuild the code... but it was painful.
Now, I use Visual SourceSafe; yes, we are still on VSS.. for now...
Make a change, check it in. If I decide I don't like it, check out a previous version.
|
|
|
|
|
Dude, Source control is your friend. If you don't understand the Source Control they are using try try try,
But seriously take the time to check out other Source Control processes. I have been forced to use GIT, TFS(VSS) in my job.
But for my home projects and my home machine I use TortouseHG/ http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/[^]
It just works and it is simple to use and it interfaces with VS Ruby ETC....
Love it.
Seriously Source Control makes you a better programmer because you no longer have to worry about what changes I made or where this rabbit hole I am in is going. It gives you and quick way to get back to the beginning and start down another rabbit hole and takes care of all the overhead. Never mind working with a team. This is just my own mind going down the various trails to see where I might end up.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
|
|
|
|
|
I have to use TFS
Previously I would just zip up my dev folder and park it in a rolling folder in the server so it would be backed up. If I found myself going down the wrong path I would just restore the project from the zip file. Live releases would get their own backed up zip file. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy
|
|
|
|
|
How can this be easier than checking in and checking out with very few clicks, a unified and descriptive history?
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
----
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
|
|
|
|
|
Visual SourceSafe  RIP my dear friend.
|
|
|
|
|
Actually, I'm still using SourceSafe. I can't stand it. It doesn't handle long lines in a file so it always reports every single minified JS file as having differences in it. It doesn't work on Windows 7/8 properly and certain hacks need to be put in place. Not that it wasn't good in its day though.
|
|
|
|
|
I guess its been about ten years since I last used it. I have a certain respect for its non-branching ethos.
The thing I do remember about it though is lots of very odd files, and the occasional moment when everything would get corrupted completely. That and shouting over the room "after you for Hyperblaster.cpp Dave!"
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
|
|
|
|
|
Not to mention that there was not really any security in the old VSS.
Anyone with commit access could go screw with the repository directly without leaving an audit trail!
|
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately Visual Source Safe is live and well, it just got its name changed to Vault http://sourcegear.com/[^] and i hate it. SVN and/or GIT work so much better...
Rant over.
Eric
|
|
|
|
|
Put a big sign on the wall:
A PROCESS SHOULD ONLY BE CONSIDERED IF:
1: It demonstrably improves products or services from the customer perspective.
2: It demonstrably improves the efficiency of product/service implementation without having a negative effect on point 1.
3: It demonstrably makes the job easier for those implementing the product/service, without having a negative effect on points 1 or 2.
All too many poor and/or inappropriate processes are put in place because they're either fashionable or they appeal to one or more people personally.
If a process, no matter how "in" it is or how appealing it is to your or anyone else's tastes, does not *demonstrably* meet the requirements above, it should be replaced with processes that do.
And keep pounding the word "demonstrably". If someone wants a new process, he has to demonstrate the effects it will have on the company, including all the cons (make sure that any discussions go straight to seeking out the cons, rather than bathing in the glory of the pros).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
|
|
|
|
|
And far, far too many groups put the customer perspective last, if they consider it at all.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
|
|
|
|
|
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you "Usability Driven Development" -
- If the ops don't understand, it ain't n't usable!
- If the devs don't understand, it ain't n't usable!
- If the users don't understand, it ain't n't usable!
- If the support don't understand, it ain't n't usable!
- If the managers don't understand, it ain't n't usable!
So make it usable!
|
|
|
|
|
Nagy Vilmos wrote: - If the managers don't understand, it ain't n't usable!
Then 99% of my code is not usable 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
You fell straight into the trap. What does the manager need to understand? He [probably] won't understand the code, nor does he need to. He will need to understand what it does, how it can be used, maybe who will buy it. THAT is his understanding.
Now if you look at each stakeholder, think about what they need to understand. The code may be elegant and simple but the UI is cluttered - FAIL for the user. A beautiful and simple UX with an unmaintainable heap behind - FAIL for the devs.
Think about what people want, not just what you want.
|
|
|
|
|
Nagy Vilmos wrote: Now if you look at each stakeholder, think about what they need to understand.
The code may be elegant and simple but the UI is cluttered - FAIL for the user.
A beautiful and simple UX with an unmaintainable heap behind - FAIL for the devs.
That is what I always try. I usually ask the future users and their "seniors" or maintenance guys or ingenieurs when developing the concept, to make it as close as I can to their "wills" or needs.
Then I program the code in such a way, it is self-explaining. Not only for other people, but for me if I have to get back there somewhen in the future, when I don't remember anymore what I thought when programming it.
My team leader always aks... does what it has to do? Does it with realiability and without blockades? Did you finish in time or get more money for the "extras"? If yes to all... then he is happy and let me manage myself on my own.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
