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DevOps was a term coined by f***ing geek ass nerds who want to sound like SpecOps. Take that devops crap and flush it down the toilet.
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Oh no ... my favourite term gets bashed ... It could also be "programmer++" 
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Based on how many coders don't seem to have any idea about SysAdmin or Ops work, I completely disagree.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Benjamin Disraeli
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So, what's wrong with SysAdmin and Operations? Why does it have to be "DevOps"? Oh, that's right, it sounds cooler. 
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Nothing is wrong with those, but they're not developers, and vice-versa.
There may be a branding element to the term, but I think it does describe a different enough job to warrant its own title.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Benjamin Disraeli
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For me the basic rule to separate those both terms is:
Programmer : Codes stuff (Mostly on base of plans or decisions)
Engineer : Developes/Designs (Keeping track, planning, managing, defining Architecture etc.) stuff + programming
Therefore i see myself as SW Engineer.
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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HobbyProggy wrote: Programmer : Codes stuff (Mostly on base of plans or decisions)
Engineer : Developes/Designs (Keeping track, planning, managing, defining Architecture etc.) stuff + programming
 IMO, this is the most accurate definition. This description perfectly fits in Agile project development.
Btw, all these related words are more or less same for those who do not know more about Software world. Whatever you say to them, they will just think, we can do anything with computers.
You can have all the tools in the world but if you don't genuinely believe in yourself, it's useless.
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My job has evolved more into the buzz word known dev ops because primary code writing and debugging is becoming a smaller part of my work. Today I struggle with design, app store and deployment, minor but regular server issues, second level customer support and marketing.
Press F1 for help or google it.
Greetings from Germany
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... my situation is +/- the same ...
Perhaps it would be an idea for a weekly poll on CP, unless we had this one already ?
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007 
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Magician.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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It's not about the abilities of the individual; it's about the criticality of the product.
If it's a web site or line-of-business app, it ain't engineering, so don't call yourself an engineer.
There are very very few software engineers. I'm a software developer and architect.
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General (software) contractor.
"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then".
― Blaise Pascal
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Having a title just means you're still a junior looking for a promotion to the next higher title.
My business card doesn't have a title, and I rarely hand one to anybody that does.
(Well I do have some old business cards from a previous employer, useful for trade shows where they expect you to provide a card to get in - they're not getting my real card either.)
Installing Signature...
Do not switch off your computer.
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I dont have a business card and it wasnt a question about titles, it was a question about mentality.
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So when you say "So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer" that's not putting a title on yourself/what you do?
Okay then, keep going, work hard and you might get there one day.
Installing Signature...
Do not switch off your computer.
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Lopatir wrote: what you do
Write kernel code for windows and linux. The most important part of this is the design, the architecture, because if that is wrong the product will never fly.
The details, the syntax, I often have to look up, because I keep forgetting it.
It is usually because my head gets so deep into complex relational behaviour between components that it just can't hold the bits and pieces for any longer than it needs to.
Lopatir wrote: you might get there one day
Been doing it for 20 years and get paid very nicely for doing so thankyou! 
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I usually introduce myself as a geek. When talking to non geeks. In a company of other geeks I say I do development. I try to leave it at that.
Some days I am a strict coder. Some days I am an architect. Some days I am the customer. Most days I am just keep politics from ruining mine and my teams lives.
As someone else said. I don't really fit into the current buzzword. I also don't want to be labeled by a buzzword. I can do design work, I can meet with the customer and come up with an overriding solution. I can be put in a corner and given specs and crank out code.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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Geeks are circus performers.
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I also call myself software engineer, although, if blundering hacks like us would be held up to the standards of civil engineering, we would all be in jail.
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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True.
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"Jim, for one million dollars, what is your name!"
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eh... I'm whatever the job description says.
Just tell me the technologies used and the pay scale.
Call me whatever you like, just don't call me late for dinner.
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Pualee wrote: Call me whatever you like, just don't call me late for dinner.
That's what Dwight (Robert De Niro) said from the movie This Boys Life.
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