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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: While children do have rights, nowhere does it say that one of these rights is to a phone.
If they can afford one and are on an age where that is a normal expense, then yes, it is.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: you can only legally do so if you have her permission to do so. S
If you are correct (which is questionable) then this is just one more reason I'm glad I don't live there. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: UN conventions of the child
First it was Germany. Now it's the UN?
Eddy Vluggen wrote: You like most people; want control
Nope, I'm not a Democrat. It's adorable though that you think you can figure me out. 
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Look them up
Oh, I thought maybe you actually knew what you were saying.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: And why are you trying to imply I might not be correct? Are you calling me a liar?
Nope. Just delusional.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Whatever you do, don't do number three.
I'm ending up there soon enough and I think I will Ask her to add me, or rather her mom, as a friend on all these services.
Knowing that we might see what she posts should be enough to self censor to a reasonable level. Those internet services ARE public after all.
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If she has a bit of sense, she'll simply and flat out refuse to.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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nah, they just open another account with their friends for "private" stuff.
all you get that's real is the occasional "oops, posted to the wrong account."
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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I think the biggest problem with the internet is that it's far too easy to be deceived.
With that in mind, I think the most useful lesson to teach her would be to never assume everything to be true. Always question the authenticity of everything. Learning this skill can prevent a lot of potential problems ranging from fraud to sexual assault - and everything in between.
Use examples of different types of problems, and as ugly as it may be, make sure to talk about sexual predators - because let's be honest, it's the most dangerous type of deception that's out there. If it hasn't happened already, her first love isn't much further around the corner... don't let it be some random on the internet.
Unfortunately most adults don't even have this skill, so it's not an easy task, but getting it in her head now will set her up well for the rest of her life. In the end, you can't monitor everything she does, so better to make sure she is educated into making the right decisions for herself. Though if you got this far as a parent, then I am sure you know most of this already 
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Trust is the best way, and always make your kids feel safe and welcome at home.
don't go putting up fences (internet filters etc)
- it absolutely destroys trust (no matter what you say)
- once trust is gone forget about them coming to you when in trouble.
Why so permissive, why no fences?
If you put up fences or tell them not to do something, guess what: they will do it anyway, but now do it somewhere else,
...somewhere probably less safe, somewhere where you can't quickly step in and help if things go wrong.
After some events (friends over and some alcohol drunk, somebody sleeps over) I have a little chat (not lecture), "what did you achieve by getting drunk? (or just cussing etc)" "did you really impress your friends in a meaningful way?" "what did you get from it that's useful?"
I'll also throw in a "hows school going?" - if they start spouting results I'll stop them and ask again "hows life at school?" (you realise that's a 'trust opening/building' question - and of course if there are issues then discuss solutions - THEIR solutions (with guidance) - shows you are interested in them, shows you trust them, you trust their opinion - the academic results will follow.
once in a while (much less often) they still have a gathering/stay over but it's more self controlled, still safe, and sometimes they'll even get apologies after. I tell them "fine, glad it didn't get too stupid, everyone is OK right." Don;t expect your kids to be monks or nuns.
I trust them, they trust me, I keep them safe, they feel that, they respect that,they respect my opinion with love, not begrudgingly obey, not pay lip service to me.
both kids did well at school - without pressure, now doing really well at uni, on their own.
trust matters most
- absolutely don't put up fences (NO internet filters and forced on-line curfews: 100% = you don't trust them).
- avoid out of the blue "let's talk" - they ALWAYS take that as fishing for reasons not to trust them.
-- which/please honestly examine yourself: it really is fishing for reasons not to trust / allow them to do something.
The time to talk is AFTER a wild night (even then stick to the "what did YOU get out of it" - let them examine their own experience and take aways ...not "what if" or "you are lucky X didn't happen" or "don't do that again" - because they will and to avoid you finding out perhaps at an even higher risk level.
Edit: internet filters are just electronic window bars. 100% trust killers.
Edit 2: no trust is perceived as no love.
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
modified 12-Feb-20 10:43am.
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funny
tslking about teenagers, kids that can out whiz anyone over 50 40 30 on a phone, kids that see what their friends can do and will try it regardless, kids that don't believe their parents are on their side for anything they peceive as fun.
safe environment.
chores were introduced earlier, bed times (actually mine both had a go at fighting it so I let them stay up on a school night, next morning: "off to school" - the law says I have to send them and that was explained. Few other [controlled] cases where I'd let them fail [their choice what they did] to teach the lesson. Soon after that I didn't even have to remind them.
Absolutely fine kids, beyond teens now they still come back for advice or just to hang out. Even money they sort out on their own (of course important things where they're struggling I'll help and won't even hint that I expect it back.)
My whole families like that, and we regularly all gather together or just show up a each others place, borrow stuff, help ourselves to whats in the fridge, (4 generations) not out of obligation, but because we all just get along.
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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IMO, the more checks and filters you put, the more inquisitive and stubborn she will be to see what is behind those filters. So, better be filter-less.
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Ask her about her thoughts on "internet / social safety" and parental responsibility.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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What are you particularly worried about her watching on Netflix?
There are parental controls (How do I set parental controls on my Netflix account?), so perhaps start there. Actually monitoring exactly what she watches is not only burdensome on you, but instills in her the idea that she cannot be trusted. As a later poster has brought up, kids have to learn to be trustworthy by being trusted.
If you're really concerned about adult / mature-rated stuff, then Netflix parental controls seem to be the best option, imo.
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My Suggestion;
Talk to your other half about what to do - 90% of parenting is presenting a united front.
Now both of you talk to your daughter, if you have SPECIFIC concerns then raise them and talk about them, if you have nebulous worries then tell her that too. Re-iterate rules about internet safety if you feel the need but don't turn a conversation into a lecture or you WILL lose your audience pretty much instantly. Make sure that you bring everything from a point of HER wellbeing, she can't raise an argument against that.
Last point, for pity's sake DON'T tell her she "HAS TO STOP" doing something...Teenagers are naturally rebellious and will take it as a challenge to ignore you and probably increase the prohibited activity.
Good Luck, my daughter is now 20 so I have been through it already, keep a calm cool approach and with luck she will still be talking to you tomorrow.
BTW, if she throws in the odd 'I hate you' or 'I wish I had (insert daughters friends name here) parents, they are way cooler" then just let it wash over you, they don't (usually) mean it and are trying to provoke a reaction.
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Before cell phones, teen girls would be on the phone non-stop at that point. At least then the risks were limited to slow moving gossip. Sorry, no advice, just observation.
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Pay attention to what any child does on a phone or the internet in general.
A close relative knew that her 13 yo daughter was in a group chat with her friends and was not concerned. However, over time -- in addition to the friends that were known, a few others that they didn't personally know got included.
Then came the plan to meet a 13 yo boy -- that the daughter and her friends knew only through the chat -- at a nearby mall.
Except the 13 yo boy was actually a 28 yo man.
This was discovered when the daughter explained why they were meeting at the mall. The predator was stupid; one of the fathers checked the guy's online profile and discovered his real age. The police were brought in.
Few predators are that stupid -- they produce a false online identity and it can be very difficult to track back. A cop I know was an internet crime investigator -- he mentioned how smart a lot of the criminals are in hiding their identity.
Anyone who says, "Don't you trust your daughter?" is -- at best -- clueless. Children lack the experience and ability to discriminate. Given how easily many adults are taken in by scams and hoaxes, it's illogical to expect more from children.
My suggestions? I did the following with my sons, who are now young adults:
Work with the wife to develop a plan, and present a united front.
Explain the dangers of the internet to your child and find real examples of internet crime with teenage victims, including sexual predators. Make it very real, using examples from your home area (if you can).
[I discovered that explaining why to my sons went a long way in getting compliance, rather than saying "because I said so".]
Explain to your child that you will be tracking and potentially limiting her usage. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't need the phone that badly.
Get added to all of her online services. Explain that if you discover she's using one you're not part of, the phone and computer access go away. Be firm.
Children get mad at their parents for being parents. It's part of the job.
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Tell her she has one chance to change behavior, or you will choose from any or all of the following:
Get a replacement credit card so the old one is invalid.
Turn off WiFi for her phone.
Close her wireless account.
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If she's logging in under your Netflix account, you should be able to select her account and see her watch history. There really isn't too much that is bad on Netflix though.
On the other hand, Snapchat and TikTok are a little different story...
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Here is how I handled mine.
I created an account for myself on the services my kids were using, then I friended and followed their accounts. I did this under the pretext of Dad wanting to be involved, not as Dad is watching you. I also promised, with a smile and a wink, not to post anything that would embarrass them. I made, maybe, one post, then basically left them alone. Over time, they just forgot that Dad was there.
My boys pretty much dropped using most of the social media platforms, aside from following their friends, and liking a post. My daughter still uses hers heavily. She is at an out-of-state university, and in her Junior year. Every once in a while, I will call or text her with a question or joke about a recent post. This usually gets a laugh and a "Oh yeah, I forgot you were following me", followed by a fun conversation.
I have always followed the Proverbs 22:6 way of raising my kids, and showed them the trust that they would make the right choices (with loving, not punitive correction when needed). But I also let them know that Dad was always there, and always interested in them and their lives. I watch the shows and movies they tell me they like (even if I would normally not have any interest in it) so that I can carry an intelligent conversation about it. I play (at least off and on) the games they play on their phones, and always bug them to help me out (I'm really not much of a gamer, and Kingdom Hearts Union Cross is fun, but has way too many parameters for me to keep up on like they do.) I think I am slated to watch the new Sonic the Hedgehog movie soon. I think I am actually looking forward to that one.
I had a rule, that as long as I was paying for their phone, they had to keep the Life360 app installed and functional. I assured them that it was so we could help in emergencies, and promised it would not be used for spying. I also pointed out they they could also see where Mom and Dad were as well. We even had one Middle School Halloween incident when one of my boys went with a group of friends to a neighborhood he was entirely unfamiliar with. He got separated from his group, and none of them had phones. After wandering around for a while, unable to find anything familiar, he called and asked us to pick him up. The app led us strait to him without any delays or hassles. My kids keep the app on their phones to this day. I even got a text from my daughter last month, "Hi Dad, I see you just got home. Can you help me with my laptop?"
In a nutshell:
If they see you as invading their space, they will fight you over it. If they see you as genuinely interested in who they are and just being involved, they will welcome you in.
Money makes the world go round ... but documentation moves the money.
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Have you tried rebooting her to see if you can replicate the behavior?
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Is this a record? No one has been accused of being a Nazi yet.
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Trying to cash in, obviously[^].
I wanted to hate the Watchmen show, I really did.
Damn them for making such a great job of it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Quote: Storyline
A movie based on the true life story of Bass Reeves...
spin off of a TV series?
Or spin off of a true story? (even if the rendition is only true-ish)
if the latter is true the former can't be.
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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Bass was prominently featured in the Watchmen series, so this looks pretty much like a case of coat-tail hanging.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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