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I work in an office that has seven Music majors in it, a few English Lit and a few computer science majors. Of these seven music majors, most went back to university to get core computer science schooling, myself included.
Music, Math, and Science are very closely related as studies show similar brain activity with all of these disciplines.
Chess, for example, is a spacial ability game and talented composers of music are known to be very good chess players as well.
But with anything else, practice practice practice is everything, and having a really good mentor or teacher to work with is extremely important in any endeavor, especially computer science.
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The best programmers I've worked with come from a strong computer science/software engineering university program.
Sometimes EEs or other engineers can make the cut - but they frequently don't have the necessary background to understand key issues such as scalability or maintainability.
A good educational backgroun coupled with 2 or 3 years of mentorship with a developer who appreciates the fundamentals makes the best developers.
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you should all stop being greeks and get your cocks out of the c drive and get layed even if it is by a hore in a brothel!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hmmmmm...whores and brothels 
Ahhhhhhhh....thats where I met your mom 
Sweet lady she was 
Tell her I say :->
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
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My computer is a pleasure model
In the Zen of programming their can only be one master
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:-DPeople from management background will make the best programmers because they would know what would be the purpose of developing the application and built it accordingly.
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Interesting point anj1983.
It certainly would be an advantage in some situations.
Daniel Vaughan
Zen Diaphragm
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At least someone agrees with me.
leo
Kathmandu, Nepal
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Some of the best/most helpful programmers I have found were lifer's/self taught programmers...
If I am correct, both:
Mike Dunn and Christian Grauss(sp. sorry guys if i'm off - to lazy to double check) are self taught programmers, not sure if either have formal backgrounds in other math/sciences, but still...
Two of the most recognizable figures on here and if memory serves me correct, both are self taught.
Therefore, I say it's those who desire to be the best who deserve the title 'top hacker' or whatever.
Most of the articles i've read over the years, especially the ones which were awesome are usually written by self taught, computer driven nerds...regardless of background.
Although, in most cases the author has some formal education in math or physics, etc...I don't consider that a factor in being a skilled developer.
Just my 2 cents
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
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I appreciate your honesty
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
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Everyone wants to be the best. Everyone is discusing what path is better, it doesn't metter as long as it ends on programming. I think the way programmer came from doesn't metter at all. It's how programmer understands his code what metters, and that doesn't depends on anything else than his logic. I think that everyone gets the max level of skills by the time they dye. It doesn't metters whats your learning curve (except if it includes Basic), it metters how far can you go.
CRPG, FRPG, Oblivion Fan
Hater of Counter Strike ( i hate it soo much damn it );
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you are a c**k sucker die
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Good news - from last results (1289, 94) more people think that "Mathematics" (333) more important than Self-taught "hackers" (310).
Bad news - many people (405) think that "Engineering" and "Physics" are the same sort of things or can be mixed in this survey as well as James Bond's "vodka"-"martini".
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Vladimir Afanasyev wrote:
Good news - from last results (1289, 94) more people think that "Mathematics" (333) more important than Self-taught "hackers" (310).
And this is why the poll is flawed. How did the mathematician learn prorgamming?? Either a) they taught themselves, in which case they're now a 'hacker', or b) they were formally taught, in which case they have a software engineering background.
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PaulMdx wrote:
And this is why the poll is flawed.
Yes, of course
And now it even flow more in mathematics (346:319) than when before.
PaulMdx wrote:
How did the mathematician learn prorgamming??
So more correctly, why mathematics for BEST programmer.
Mathematics creates perfect brains, its makes perfect way of thinking.
It make strong structures, objects, categories and strong mathematical proof. And it is a really elegants, artistic...
Why theory of relativity? Because it is true? Yes, but first of all because it is easy (relatively) and elegant theory that is why phisicians get it.
What give you "self-taught hacking" - browsing in machine code?
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The operative words were "background" and "best".
You can't have engineering without first having Mathematics. Science would not exist without Mathematics or logic. An engineering student can't take a majority of their core classes without getting a background in Mathematics.
A person could learn a programming language without first taking Discrete Mathematics as a foundation, but they will either a)Not become one of the "best" programmers or b)Go back and learn Discrete Mathematics (By research or trial and error) a chunk at a time, in no particular order during their career.
Either choice will result in periods of confusion and inefficiency that will make the programmer resort to workarounds to problems that are basically straightforward and logical. They will shy away from fast and efficient solutions at a low level because they will consider them harder than using a higher layer technology. These programmers will write code that suffer from "bloat" and speed deficiencies.
Don't get me wrong, proper use of abstraction yields high productivity, but only if the programmer knows when it's worth the time to maybe shave off roughly 100,000 clock ticks on a repetitive function call and he or she knows how to interface with those low level items to get the job done in a resonable time frame. At that level, a "background" in Discrete Mathematics proves to be very effective.
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Anyway a good mathematican can't be a good programmer: it's too mundane for him.
The only thing it could be good at is on modelizing the topology of good coding according to the degrees of ignorance of the programmer.
But certainly not coding itself, so.... untheoritical!
Trust me: I'm a physicist
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
Jack Handey.
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Super Lloyd wrote:
Anyway a good mathematician can't be a good programmer: it's too mundane for him.
We do not say about any good mathematican, any good programmer and any good physicist... It is another story, another discussion...
We say about BEST.
Let us begin (and end ) physicist. Albert Einstein one of the best physicist... He was not mathematician, he was physicist...
He get formula from Lorenz and add some perfect principles.
In the result he created theory of relativity (special).
When he begin to create theory of gravitation he understand he can't...
without mathematics. So he study tensor algebra, non-Euclidean geometry etc..,
and he got result. That is differences between ANY GOOD and BEST...
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what is this like the 1970's where they had to find programmer to program machines wih punch cards ? why is computer science not inluded ?
A Programmers Journal
RSS
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I was self-taught until my computer science degree. Thankfully studying computer science gave me exposure to all sorts of programming related stuff that I would never have had if I had done another degree or none at all; such things as building compilers and learning non-procedural languages such as schema.
Computer Science should have been in there.
Daniel Vaughan
Zen Diaphragm
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i come from china ,my english is very pool,but i want to study english,
at china,programmer is very hard,but income is very pool,
we believe it isn't good job for life.
i stduy marketing at the college.i think marketing is important only.
do it once,by do it right
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good luck with your english & marketing study, hey
By the way, is it true that China want to wage war on the rest of the world, starting with Taiwan first soon?
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laohan wrote:
my english is very pool
Ah, your English is better than my Chinese. Keep up the good work!
Jeremy Falcon
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i wish i knew chinnese so i could play SNES rpgs that aren't patched.
CRPG, FRPG, Oblivion Fan
Hater of Counter Strike ( i hate it soo much damn it );
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