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...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon.
Marc
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Whats wrong with 2012? I have found it to be a lot better than 2010, but then again I haven't used it with a production size project yet.
CPallini wrote: You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him.
:Smile:
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Too many unfulfilled promises.
i.e. the world didn't end.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Is Microsoft forcing every developer to make "app" now?
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Nope. I'm still happily churning away producing desktop applications; and, yes, that is with VS2012 on W8.
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Is C# still the main language even with the App concept in Windows 8? Does Microsoft has another language for app now? Does Microsoft try to separate desktop application development and app development?
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crunchor wrote: Is C# still the main language even with the App concept in Windows 8?
It's one of the languages you can use. You can also use C++, VB, or the weird codebortion mixup that is JavaScript/HTML for WinRT.
crunchor wrote: Does Microsoft try to separate desktop application development and app
development?
Yes.
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Marc Clifton wrote: I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out.
I would still be using 2008 but Python Tools for VS requires 2010 or above so I had to "upgrade" to 2010, it dosent seem too different from 2008 but then again I don't really use VS for what Microsoft intended it to be, I use the VS 2010 Shell instead of the "full" version (http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=115[^]) as I simply cannot find any decent IDE with working auto complete and other niceties.
Marc Clifton wrote: pathetic performance
Probably the WPF that VS's UI is written in.
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'It was only when we started using it ourselves (for Visual Studio 2010) that we found WPF3 wasn't suitable for writing applications...' said the man from the Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 team and I didn't even fall off my chair 
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage."
Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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Marc Clifton wrote: I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out.
And that is why I havent bothered upgrading my home PC yet. (I do have express versions installed, but never use them)
Also, the debugger for .NET 4 onwards is so bloody slow you can't even run unit tests under it...
VS2012 was not to VS2010 as VS2008 was to VS2005 and VS2003 was to VS2002.
Dammit, I have expectations!
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I found VS2010 pretty good, not much different from VS2008 for what I used it for, but VS2012 is a definite backward step - and not in good way.
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits.
- Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most.
- I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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VS2010 was running like a pig in Jell-O while the RC of VS2012 was running like a cheetah in the plains of Africa on my machine.
I was never ever able to do any kind of work with VS2010; and now with VS2012, ther is a glimmer of hope.
Nihil obstat
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I have not made it to VS2012 yet, but I understand it is not quite as slow as VS2010.
Occasionally (a lot more than I would like to admit), I have to go back and do some work in good old Visual C++ 6. After working a whole day in VS2010 on our large projects, the speed (or un-sluggishness) of VC6 almost make you want to cry.
Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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This is so true. I switched over to VS2010 from VC6 and was wondering where the performance went. I still find myself opening VC6 to just quickly edit something.
All these fancy things are nice, but boy the waiting.
Try pressing F12 on a symbol in a LARGE project. You can have two cups of coffee before the dev environment comes back with a result.
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Performance on VS2010 really sucks. You really notice it when running on a netbook. Get 2008 Express while you still can. On my netbook, 2008 is ready in 3 seconds. 2010 takes about 20 seconds before the splash screen comes up and almost 2 minutes before visual studio is ready to use.
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I find 2012 a bit faster than 2010. But what's the point! It's unusable, dark gray on light gray with a shade of gray here and there and gray icons everywhere... I don't know why on earth Microsoft decided that painting everything with gray is a good idea! This monochromatic trend is ridiculous. Gray is now my most hated colour! I just updated my work PC to office 2013, and it's the same gray nightmare... it's terrible! Anyway I agree with you 2012 is the worst ms IDE since VB6.
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I don't really like VS 2012 visually but, for the things I do, there are some improvements. For example, edit and continue with lamdba expressions in method is nice. Unfortunately, you have to double enter with typing a watch, and watch intellisense doesn't work. All in all, I would say it is a wash with no compelling reason to upgrade but I wouldn't write it off entirely. Also, the Thread debugging features do crash less.
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote: the Thread debugging features do crash less
Now that's a ringing endorsement  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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I like the new language features and bugfixes with the newer compiler versions, but the last Visual Studio IDE version that I really liked was VS6.
I use double wide monitors and typically like to have 20 to 30 windows open. This kinda lends itself to the MDI paradigm, which was last best implemented with VS6. I really dislike the sliding tabbed window stuff which is all we get now.
--
Harvey
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I hope I'll never have to use VS 2010, way too slow to launch. Fortunately, I won't use 2012 soon since installing the beta broke my system so much that it became perfectly impossible to uninstall/repair/install or whatever. The little I saw of it shows it grew more monstruous than the former.
I have worked a lot with VS 2003 and still use it as my main development platform, even though it has several irritating features such as very sloooow debugging. VS 2008 is cool too.
Globally speaking, these IDE are marvels. My only regrets are that GUI applications often resist to debugging by not getting you to the very crash location (see what I mean ?). And that the Profiler went away from the standard version.
I still love VC6 for being so fast.
For a daily usage, little of VC has changed over the successive versions.
In recent months, I have used Eclipse a lot more. It doesn't stand the comparison.
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... You're saying you won't use 2012 because the *beta* broke your system? 
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The beta 2012 (back in early 2012 ?) broke something in some persistent settings, making it impossible to uninstall or install on my machine (more precisely, vs_professional.exe crashes as soon as launched). I have spent a lot of time trying to fix that, to no avail. Too much time. I'll wait until I get a new PC.
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Personally I loved 2005/2008.
I didn't mind 2010, but it was slow.
I took one look at 2012, and decided I didn't want to use it unless I'm forced to.
2003 and earlier were just plain horrid (though most of my opinion on it is based on coding in .Net 1.1.)
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I found 2012 to be much faster than 2008 (and that's on a HyperV VM, i.e. no hardware UI acceleration). Update 2 is especially quick (they got rid of a few of those wait dialogs and mundane things like how fast characters appear on the screen are incredibly fast now). If you use TFS at all the source control explorer is also a lot faster (especially "get latest"), not to mention the parallel project loading (something 2008 is still dreadful at).
My cup of tea isn't yours - but I seriously think 2012 is a major step forward.
Also, how many extensions do you have loaded up in 2012? Because 2008 didn't have the simple extension framework from 2010/2012 it's a lot more difficult to bog 2008 down with unnecessary crap.
Edit: Also Update 2 has a newer, more colorful, color scheme - for those who want it. I personally concentrate on my code more; so all IDEs look the same (colored text on a plain background) - the dull 2012 IDE actually helps with concentration because I get less distracted by the chrome/frame.
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Chinese Proverb]
Jonathan C Dickinson (C# Software Engineer)
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MS could have done worse. Just think of how they went from Win7 to Win8. I am sure the ride from VS08 to VS10 to VS12 will start looking way better. Maybe MS have become sick of the lawsuits regarding competition and monopoly things!
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