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Thanks for that. I'll give the books a read - love the Google books. Being Canadian, I do have some problems with translating English to English,  but I might need a Bable fish for "The Forme of Cury". The article says it dates back to the 1400's
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yes - I am an arc-ist
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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Don't know what I want but I know how to get it.
You looking for sympathy?
You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric
(Page 1788, if it helps)
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..my sandwich tastes like carpet, and I know why.
Because I got rye, because I got rye, because I got rye.
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Argh! It's Loaficer
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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They are winning in international sporting event and are on #1! Now who would believe that?
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All the opposition have been bribed to throw the match? 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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I often see TDD is dead, no longer exists blah blah. Well this might help for anyone who is confused want to shape up him/her self.
If you write code, write tests
The pupil asked the master programmer :
“When can I stop writing tests?”
The master answered :
“When you stop writing code.”
The pupil asked :
“When do I stop writing code?”
The master answered :
“When you become a manager.”
The pupil trembled and asked :
“When do I become a manager?”
The master answered :
“When you stop writing tests.”
The pupil rushed to write some tests.He left skid marks.
If the code deserves to be written,it deserves to have tests.
.... The Way Of Testivus[^]
Wonde Tadesse
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 +5
/ravi
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If a Test Fails in the night,
and no ones there to see it:
Does it make an error?!
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Not until I log into my computer the next morning and see the cruisecontrol.net icon in my tray has turned red. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Codefucious, he say
"Man who code and not test,
He a farkin' eejit"
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Nice, but writing tests is one thing and having a test-based *design* something very different.
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There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Agreed. But it starts by knowing the basic which is Testing.
Wonde Tadesse
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Just 2 things:
1st
"I often see TDD is dead!"
it's a good header if you want to get some pageviews
2nd
TDD is not just writing tests...
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AlexCode wrote: "I often see TDD is dead!"
May be/ May be not. Who knows the outcome!AlexCode wrote: TDD is not just writing tests...
Agree. Starts with "T" testing though. If he/she continues his/her dumbness, will follow another round for TDD for Dummmies 102, 202 even 400 and 500 once ! 
Wonde Tadesse
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LOL!
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
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TDD as a religion should die.
In my previous contract the team (before I joined) followed their own (misguided) interpretation of DDD and TDD.
They had an awful lot of passing unit and integration tests (pats on back and a slice of cake for everyone, hoorah! ![Java | [Coffee]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif) ), but the project didn't work properly from the users perspective, it continually missed all it's deadlines and after spending over £1 million on it, the team and the project have been canned (I'd got out before then, it was obvious from the start where the project was heading - I'd raised issues with management, but it all fell on deaf ears).
If you're developing a product, it's the product that matters at the end of the day, not the tests. TDD is a nice to have, but it's far from essential.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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I keep seeing a JavaTDD role advertised, I was wondering TDD was a tool box, but from this it appear to a half- bottomed approach to testing...(think I will stay clear...)
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-TDD but it's a means to an end, it's not the end in itself.
Too many developers get obsessed with having every possible angle covered by unit tests, in many cases the size of the unit tests become significantly larger than what they're testing.
The worst thing is when you see an awful architecture with classes with 32 dependencies - or more - being injected (yes, I have seen this, hard as it is to believe  ) into the constructor, then you see the huge amount of objects being mocked in the unit tests!?!?
TDD in itself is a good thing, but in practice I've rarely seen it used in a good way. It's not the fault of TDD, much in the same way as it's not a guns fault someone gets shot.
For every team where TDD works my experience is that there are many more teams where it doesn't because of the poor team culture and/or way it's being implemented.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Even worse, farkloads of dependency injection, levels of indirection and hopelessly complex and abstruse APIs to facilitate "proper" design, and then....
No tests.
Orrrr....
Out of date tests that are never run, and one hopeless soul in a corner who's not really good enough to be a developer but was hired because the budget isn't there for a dedicated test team so we need a muppet to hand-test the entire sorry ball of sh.... Yeeeah.
TDD has improved code quality? No it damn well has not. If anything it's become yet anohter excuse for lazy, lackadaisical people to call themselves "architects".
Do it right, or not at all.
And a good team of coders can minimize the need for test coverage by using decent, intelligent coding practices in the day-to-day.
I too dabbled in pacifism once.
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On the project I mentioned, the first warning signs to the team should have been that there were 149 projects in the solution (C#, MVC4) yet all it actually did was show a login form (and even that didn't work properly!) 
And when you mention anything you get the usual "you don't understand TDD/DDD", "that's an anti-pattern", "what you're suggesting isn't Agile", etc. (i.e. ways to try and prevent any discussion of the real problems).
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: there were 149 projects in the solution (C#, MVC4) yet all it actually did was show a login form
My jaw quite literally dropped open when I read this. I know I'm guilty of gold-plating my code, but the worst I've ever gone on a single application is 9 projects.
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