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dlhale wrote:
Just assume that the CIA reads everything. |
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Interesting - we went the other way. We used Google Business email (with Outlook integration) when we were a startup and switched to MS Exchange when we were acquired. For a couple of months we worked in hybrid mode, which was surprisingly painless.
/ravi
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I'm not aware of all the reasons for our change other than Exchange Server 2003 has some serious limitations and the cost to upgrade to Exchange Server 2016 was elephanting outrageous.
I'm sure our CIO looked at quite a few options before pulling this particular trigger.
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
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Yes, IMHO MS licensing tends to favor large enterprise clients. 
/ravi
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We made this switch in 2012, replacing in-house Exchange-clone servers (Zarafa). It's been great in terms of taking the job of maintaining mail servers away from our limited IT team.
We made things unnecessarily hard for ourselves by not training or supporting users properly. I encourage you to invest in training up a few people at least, who can then support their colleagues.
Most important point - if you do everything in Google Apps via the web, you will experience happiness (after the initial pain of adjustment). If you try to use Outlook (or to a lesser extent IMAP clients), or the Google drive sync tool, or any other non-web tools, you will experience pain. The Google Apps Sync for MS Outlook is at best a sticking plaster. Do not rely on it long term. Especially since those who cling to Outlook will be the power users (probably your senior sales people and C-level execs) who will have the greatest trouble with GASMO.
The exception here - the Active Directory sync tools work very well.
Our company now splits into those who love GMail, a large number who don't really care either way, and a small number of Outlook zealots who hate it with a passion. If you want the migration to be successful, IMO you must mandate an end-date for Outlook and move everyone to the web clients. Support them with training, tips, hand-holding, bribes, whatever, but just do it.
Oh, and the multiple-account support of Google stuff on web and Android phones is pretty much universally awesome. You should have no problems there. Everyone else should learn from how well this works. I suggest making use of the multiple users feature in Chrome, although you can usually switch within each app too.
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Awesome reply. Thanks!
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
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We made the switch a few years ago and I agree with everything above. It was a pretty smooth transition, it's great not having to deal with an Exchange server anymore, and everyone I work with loves it now.
Just about everything allows multiple logins - Gmail, Drive, Calendar, etc., even their mobile aps -- so you can use your personal and work accounts at the same time with no problem.
I also agree that you should get everyone on the web clients. I don't even install Outlook on anyone's machines anymore.
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VSpike wrote: If you try to use Outlook (or to a lesser extent IMAP clients),
I'm curious what you've ran into? I've been accessing my personal gmail using Outlook (via imap) for most of the last decade and never had any major problems.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I think GMail's IMAP implementation is OK. Since labels are mapped to folders, you can see a message appear in multiple folders. Deleting/copying/moving usually does the right thing (removing/adding tags). The same can't be said for the GASMO tool!
The problems we've have are related to very large mailboxes with lots of folders. The IMAP client in older Outlooks was very bad IMO. In newer ones it seems better, but they've remove the option to download headers only. Syncs seem to take a long time and often never complete. IMAP rates are throttled by Google which doesn't help large syncs.
We also have some shared mailboxes that people use to replace the old "Public Folders" feature of Exchange. Dragging and dropping between accounts in Outlook is unreliable with IMAP and GASMO.
A couple of users with large mailboxes have managed to break their treasured folder structure completely, and none of the available Google Apps backup systems do a decent job of restoring.
This gets towards the main problem of this approach. You are meant to use labels in GMail in quite a different way to the traditional folder hierarchy favoured by some email users (me too, once upon a time). Tag emails for actions/status. Use search to find emails rather than filing them. If you stick with IMAP, you are never encouraged to transition to this native way of doing things, and will never get the full benefit. It also means that Outlook or IMAP users who try to view their email in Gmail web will have a horrible experience because it doesn't deal with large folder structures well.
I've used GMail with Thunderbird in the past and it's a perfectly fine way of doing it, but after the pain of switching to the web client I would not go back. I liken it to doing something like switching from Delphi to C# and then trying to write C# like it's Pascal all the time instead of writing idiomatic C#. Possible, yes, but probably not ideal.
Above is my personal slant - IMAP will probably work fine for lots of people. I was thinking about it from a point of view of an IT staffer who has to support a roll out. If you allow Outlook and other clients, it will cause more of a drag on support in the long run.
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VSpike wrote: The IMAP client in older Outlooks was very bad IMO. In newer ones it seems better, but they've remove the option to download headers only.
Eeew. I used 2007 and 2010. If the header only option is removed in newer versions then it sounds like I've got another reason beyond the downgrades to the Todobar (only 1 months calendar shown, only 1 weeks appointments shown) to continue not upgrading my personal client.
My main gmail account is set to download everything, but I also have a secondary gmail account that forwards to the main one. I don't need to download a second copy of messages from it; but I did need to connect to it in some way so I could sent from it when needed. Headers only keeps the pst small while letting me send from it normally.
Gmail's search has always worked well enough I never did a lot of labels/folders. To keep it clean I had a marketing label years before google added the promotions tab to do the same. The other big one I have is receipts; mostly because otherwise finding them tended to result in a lot of noise in the search results. Searching from inbox would drown them in hits for a product from marketing messages from newegg/etc; and even just searching from within my everything else label was prone to noise from forum notifications or discussions with friends about tech.
At some point I really ought to play around more with google's other category options. I never did much with them because they didn't align well with any of the points I considered cleaving my inbox into narrower subsets. For the last year or so I've also been procrastinating because after buying an android mail client that's claim to fame was being able to break your inbox down into dozens of finely demarcated categories I've been expecting some of their tech to get pushed into gmails web client as well.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Okay, we gave up our mail servers a long time ago for GMail and Gmail/business.
Best decision EVER! (I find the SPAM portion to be near perfect)
We don't use Google Apps much, all of our clients use MSFT Office still.
The multiple accounts, and multiple senders is a great feature. All my mail is configured in the web client, and that configuration carries to the phone. (as someone else mentioned).
We have an Office 365 license, but the ONE TIME we needed to use the storage to move a large VM. It crashed in our region for the day. Google Drive handled it just fine. Reaffirming the Google Decision.
HTH
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Cool! Thanks!
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
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Few years back, I worked at a place which used Google Business for just email. I hated it. Have fun mixing your personal and business Google accounts.
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Udemy runs $10 deal till 11th Jan. Glad I bought one nice course today which is really more than worthy.
Last time I forgot[^] so this time reminding.
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Hmm. They couldn't sell their course on "The art of selling to intelligent people" so they've had to resort to cutting-me-own-throat prices? What's wrong with this picture?
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Member 9082365 wrote: Hmm. They couldn't sell their course on "The art of selling to intelligent people"
That guy already sold this 153 times 
Member 9082365 wrote: so they've had to resort to cutting-me-own-throat prices? What's wrong with this picture?
I think most of them trying the trick "Amazon Kindle ebooks sales rank" everywhere.
Price-down - More sales - Getting upper rank(More visibility) - Also getting more reviews - Then Price-Up.
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Agree it happens. But I do a background check before buying things. Regarding sites like Pluralsight & Lynda .... I'm not a fan of subscription type models. But at workplace I have free access to Lynda. BTW Pluralsight has only technical courses.
I'm not saying that all courses are worth for the mentioned price @ Udemy.
Since last two months I bought around 10 courses from Udemy but at the rate of $10(yes, during deals period). IMO this price is really cheaper when you compare with ebooks. I bought some ebooks & e-comics even over $10 through gumroad or Kickstarter or amazon.
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$199 down to $10. Makes me wonder why so many courses are on discount, some very steep discounts. Interesting, though.
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Kindle ebook sales Tip-Trick #[Insert a number] : Before applying discount, just increase the price so it'll attract the members with higher discount.
Before Trick
Actual Price = 20
Price After discount = 10
Total Discount % = 50%
After Trick
Actual Price = 20
Increased Price = 100
Price After discount = 10
Total Discount % = 90%
Buyers eyes vs Discounts(50% or 90%?) = 90% cheats the eyes easily.
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Are you positive that is what they are doing? It could just be that some of the courses are not in demand.
Anyhow, have you learned anything substantial from these courses? i.e. my salary just went up 5K because I am now a master of this or that. Just curious, is all.
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Slacker007 wrote: Are you positive that is what they are doing? It could just be that some of the courses are not in demand.
As I mentioned in other reply to someone, those're the just tricks some creators/authors do apply to increase the sales. Most of tricks come from amazon kindle ebooks sales tricks. Just search amazon using those keywords, you'll get many books about sales. There people selling their ebooks just for 99 cents to beat others who's selling similar(topic or genre) ebooks for over $2.99. But still so many authors beats 99 cents books sellers by their quality, on-demand & etc.,
Slacker007 wrote: Anyhow, have you learned anything substantial from these courses? i.e. my salary just went up 5K because I am now a master of this or that. Just curious, is all.
First, I didn't purchase any technical courses. All're related to art(Drawing, Videos, animation) & for my hobbies & etc.,
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IMHO, Udemy is little more than a course marketplace - the quality of their content is suspect. I much prefer Udacity.
/ravi
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There front page (udacity) makes me feel that I can be the most powerful web developer warlock, in just a few clicks. I mean, "full stack web developer". I wish I had a full stack.  
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I'm taking a Google course on Android programming, which is nice and chunky. The course requires you to wade through the docs and StackOverflow to implement some portions of the app. In the end, your app is critiqued by real Googlers. I really like the course so far.
/ravi
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