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Sander Rossel wrote: Those are really the only three explanations I have for not needing EF
with experience far better to swim without water wings, they severely limit style and throttle optimisation.
Sin tack
the any key okay
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I don't really need EF to generate my queries in a certain style... 
When I need optimization EF has certain options, when they aren't enough I can still opt-out of EF in that one instance.
For example, EF can't handle recursive queries, so I write those by hand (and use EF to execute it).
When optimization is a problem I use an SP, but something like context.SomeTable.Where(t => t.Id == id).ToList() can't really be optimized even if I wrote it by hand.
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Quote: Because you're using another ORM or not using .NET or SQL?
a.) another ORM -> No
b.) not using .NET ->No
c.) not using SQL ->No
But I like to have it under my control. Sooner or later I think a lot of users of EF comes to this conclusion.
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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You like to write all those SELECT statements by hand time and time again?
When I want to be in control I take control, all those other times I use EF (which is most of the time).
The only optimization I can do to something like context.SomeTable.Where(t => t.Id == id).ToList() is removing the []'s from the generated query...
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Yes
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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SELECT TOP 1 Description
FROM TimeWasters
ORDER BY TimeTaken DESC
-----------------------------------------------
Description
-----------------------------------------------
Writing and mapping simple SQL queries by hand.
string topTimeWaster = context.TimeWasters
.OrderByDescending(t => t.TimeTaken)
.Select(t => t.Description)
.First();
Console.WriteLine(topTimeWaster);
Writing and mapping simple SQL queries by hand. 
EF is less error prone as it's all strongly typed as well! 
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Perhaps it is only an age phenomenon (I'm pretty old;) ) doing things like this still explicitely by myself.
On the other Hand, if I do it by myself, even it takes me some minutes more, it makes me thinking what I'm doing, which I think is very helpfull.
You are happy with EF, I'm happy with my way. No Need to fight about it
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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0x01AA wrote: No Need to fight about it
There is always need to fight with strangers over the internet
*Clears throat to make a snappy comeback...*
Ah well, I'll let you off the hook this time, considering your age and all... 
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Quote: Ah well, I'll let you off the hook this time, considering your age
I'm missing this Thing with one Hand showing one finger 
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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No - back in the 90's I wrote a code generator that does all the donkey work for me, is is the standard for the teams and it has been left with at least 10 other organisations over the years. Simple, basic ORM, DAL and code generator that does somewhat more than EF and a whole lot less.
Using that we can generate a solution a faster than EF and it is not a black box, all the devs know the code.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I wrote such a tool for Oracle.
Very simple, primitive, fast and does exactly what it should.
I wouldn't leave it at other organisations though
About a year later I found out another team in our organisation also had such a tool.
However, it assumed everything was a friggin package and that was all it could work with...
I even ran into a very simple scenario that was not supported by the tool. Can't remember what it was, but I remember saying "this is common practice, basics!"
Horrible 
My previous employer also had such a tool... I don't even want to talk about that one! 
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Nice reply! Yes, there are many here who were writing code before the arrival of EF in 2008 and had already created our own tools for doing the grunt work. IMHO, one of the marks of a good (or maybe just lazy) developer is that they have written a code generator. :thumbsup
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Similar story here, wrote something up in the early 00's at a company that got split up and sold off. Had a project 2 years ago at a completely different employer and industry and going through the code I found that same DAL at the base, complete with my typo'd comments
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I turned a Win7 machine on yesterday for the first time in over three years, and it's been "checking for updates" for the last 15-1/2 hours...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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So, still a long way to go. 
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It's having trouble updating you to Windows 8.0 and Office 365 with Clippy. 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Had the same problem. If I remember correctly it's a bug in the updater caused by an update...
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I have a win10 machine that I packed into storage last October that will see the light of day in July, I imagine the update will take some time and a months bandwidth.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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It's probably trying to update to winio.
Yours won't be the first machine bricked by that.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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My XP Embedded machine took 20 minutes and 2 reboots to get the last 8 months of updates installed
Director of Transmogrification Services
Death Defying Database Dude
Professor of the Yoda Conditional
Shinobi of Query Language
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It might never end - I tried this after 24 hours and was up and running again in less than an hour:-
How to Update Windows 7 All at Once with Microsoft’s Convenience Rollup[^]
The update service had been running on my system for weeks consuming 13% system resources and achieving nothing other than raising the CPU temperature until I installed this. Windows update now runs normally...
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OriginalGriff wrote: that's a fair ways off
Don't count on it. First they wanted it ready last year, then january, then it was this month and now it's autumn.
Berlin is probably going to have a new airport[^] before we can watch this show. And the ship is so ugly that it could have been designed by Mickeysoft.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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