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I used to build databases by hand, and use PostScript and mark-up languages (the vast majority of which were far better suited to the job than XML) to produce documents.
... But then better tools came along, which allowed me to spend my time and energy on doing the work, rather than on setting up the infrastructure for it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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There's one main reason I don't switch back to linux and that is Visual Studio. MonoDevelop is good, but not great. Linux C++ IDE offerings are bunk on linux even if gcc itself is good. KDevelop had potential way back when but oh well.
Has anyone ever tried to get Visual Studio (not VSCode!) running in linux in something other than a virtual machine?
I don't want all that hassle of running windows at all if I don't have to.
I just got my computer back from microsoft. I had to wait for it to install some unplanned updates that rebooted the machine 3 times and took almost 10 minutes. And MS says windows boot times are fast. 
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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The last VS version was better than garbage on wine was 2008... with a bronze... 2005 got gold...
Maybe here you could find something... .NET tools & editors for Windows, Linux and macOS[^] (I'm using VS Code)
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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honey the codewitch wrote: Has anyone ever tried to get Visual Studio (not VSCode!) running in linux in something other than a virtual machine?
Little chance for that; too much components in there that will fail the install.
honey the codewitch wrote: I had to wait for it to install some unplanned updates that rebooted the machine 3 times and took almost 10 minutes. And MS says windows boot times are fast.
..an update is not a normal boot. I love my Kubuntu-machine, but to be fair, I also love the VS on Windows, and it certainly doesn't take 10 minutes for a normal boot.
In Linux you'd be loosing more time after each update, since not every packages' dependence will update nicely, going through weird errors and copy/pasting a lot of commands in the console window.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: In Linux you'd be loosing more time after each update, since not every packages' dependence will update nicely, going through weird errors and copy/pasting a lot of commands in the console window.
You know, for some reason linux and I just get along. I don't tend to have a lot dependency problems, and I understand the various package tools pretty well.
It tends to be less cranky for me than windows overall. Usually if it doesn't work it's because i did something wrong. Windows won't work if I look at it sideways.
Not that I'm down on windows. I love windows, but I get sick of windows' $*(#@& sometimes and I want a good old ubuntu machine or something.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote: Usually if it doesn't work it's because i did something wrong.
That's not what most people report, as you already know.
honey the codewitch wrote: I love windows, but I get sick of windows' $*(#@& sometimes and I want a good old ubuntu machine or something.
And you can, but Linux is not stable enough for VS.
I'd be surprised if VS came past the installation of .NET; it's not a question of whether it runs, it won't even install.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Wouldn't cost you anything to try it with a trial of codeweavers. I choose to run it in a W10 VM in Mint. Have not had any stability problems with many versions of Linux over the past 4 or 5 years. I have been using it for servers and my main system for some 10 years or more. Used to be problematic on my old Thinkpad but ran OK if I didn't suspend it. That was some 5 years ago. Run a MacBook now, with Fusion. VM's run fine.
I don't hate Windows... I don't hate anything. I am just a contrarian. 
Lou
If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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I'll maybe try a VM since my latest machine has hardware support for it, but it doesn't have a lot of RAM which is why I wanted to avoid running one.
I don't think linux has stability issues, though some of the other commenters think that. I think it's more of an issue of the stability and interoperability of the packages you install. That's really what's at issue since linux is less of a "closed loop" than windows is, there's more opportunity to *#$%@# it up. That's not an issue though if you know what you're doing. It's a bit like coding in C++ vs. C#. I like both. C++ is more powerful but when you screw up you blow your whole leg off.
And for the record, i love windows. I even wrote a small part of it. (Click on "This PC" in a file explorer, and then Manage...)
But it can frustrate me. Linux is more my speed, but Visual Studio is my jam. Monodevelop and the various other IDEs on linux just don't cut it. I've been thinking of looking into JetBrains Ride to see how good it is, but I don't know if I want to buy yet another IDE after I've already invested so much into the VS stack, you know?
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote: though some of the other commenters think that.
Note some, just me, and you are allowed to name me.
honey the codewitch wrote: That's really what's at issue since linux is less of a "closed loop" than windows is, there's more opportunity to *#$%@# it up.
More dependencies that get changed then under Windows, where they are very reluctant to change anything that may break something, and where they can spend money on keeping stuff working.
honey the codewitch wrote: That's not an issue though if you know what you're doing.
So, the mismatch in the packages I install, and the updater killing itself is my own fault? 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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> So, the mismatch in the packages I install, and the updater killing itself is my own fault?
As much as my VS2017 installation failing is mine
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote: And for the record, i love windows. I even wrote a small part of it. (Click on "This PC" in a file explorer, and then Manage...)
The MMC host?
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no. the computer management snap-in for the MMC host
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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Not possible, because VS is a WPF application.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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#realJSOP wrote: Not possible, because VS is a WPF application.
 "because shooting twice is just silly"
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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yeah... nah...
A year back looked at going this rout, didn't get as far as vs because first tried a few other simpler things (tools, utils I use) with wine that were gold rated and:
- at best I would say only "mostly" worked - sometimes caveats were noted, sometimes not.
- be prepared for at any time (even idle) for it to simply stop (freeze, spectacular or just disappear)
with a lot of tinkering I got things "more" mostly working but it was like per hour:
- 35 minutes tinkering,
- maybe 10 minutes actual work,
- 15 minutes preparing for the next inevitable fail
remember wine at best barely achieves stability at "windows xp" level, win 7? 
wine is not something I would daily use for anything I rely on: firstly there's always the feeling it's going to fail 60, 15, 1 minute later,
and that's only after making all the compromises and adjustments to your usage of the app to "achieve better stability" (i.e. they say "use these settings, avoid using X, ...
remember dev of wine itself is low, still years behind, poorly managed. In terms of dev towards app compatibility that's totally ad-hoc at best - only if someone needs something and they got the energy to do it does it happen, and only as far as their own needs for that app.
stick to VM's
- it works, it's easy, you can actually concentrate on getting work done
- not losing time tinkering the platform, installing / practising workarounds and compromises
- in case you're worried it's legal.
<< Signature removed due to multiple copyright violations >>
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Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't going to assume WINE was still unstable - it has been years since I've played with it, and I had heard some good things, but I guess I should remain skeptical.
My only issue using the VM is I only have 8GB of ram in my dev machine for now (long sordid tale, i really need to upgrade this old i5)
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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I need at least a bottle and a half, just to get started.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I've been working on and off for the past year in trying to write a small mobile app to help my training at the gym. It's stupid simple what I'm after, but I've been trying to avoid going the easy (aka hard) route of separate iOS and Android apps. Because I like to complicate things and yet I'm lazy and super short on time.
I have a Windows Form version, which I ported to a Vue/Typescript web app. I'd like to stick to either .NET or TypeScript as my language of choice.
It seemed Xamarin would be sensible given that it allows me to stay in C#. Except my experience with Xamarin hasn't been great and it seems Microsoft is pushing React Native for UWP apps. So why not Reach Native? Porting Vue to React/RN is simple enough and I'll simply stick with TypeScript as my core language and I'm done.
Except that I cannot, for the life of me, get anything to work. I've forked GitHub repos that have "complete apps". I've walked through, line by line, the official docs on Facebook. I've spent the hour installing the Android SDKs, node, gradle, chocolatey, yarn, react native, etc etc etc. GB worth of installs. Endless command lines. Opening a powershell window in Admin mode to run the ps1 scripts. Manually adding the environment variables.
Insane.
I can't believe that 13 years after the iPhone was released we're still in the string and ducttape era of cross platform mobile development.
Once I get this working and boiled down to something sensible I'll write an article.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Except my experience with Xamarin hasn't been great
Sorry to hear that. I've had nothing but success with Xamarin. Admittedly, I currently build native Android apps only.
/ravi
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I've dealt with a few android apps using Android Studio, and each was a mess. Emulators either didn't function, or were pathetically slow/limited. Countless re-installations later, I opted to do live debugging on my phone and ditch emulation.
The one experience with Android apps that went smoothly involved a game I made in Unity3D. Got to keep the C# love, and it compiled for Android and ran without hassle.
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im guessing you were running on windows. ihad an i7 8GB machine and it wasnt enough under windows
i recently upgraded my machine entirely so i could run Android Studio and emulator.
However i went back to the older machine and installed Ubuntu and Andrioid Studio and found that bec Linux OS uses so much less RAM (1.2GB base v windows 4-5 GB base) that i could run Studio and emulator on Linux.
The emulator constantly ran out of RAM on windows.
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Yeah, it was a Win PC. I don't recall the specific issue in my case, but it ran like hot garbage on both my i3 and i7 laptop, 8g and 16g respectively. Once it ran so well on the live device, I just gave up on the troubleshooting.
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In my limited mobile development I used Basic4Android (B4A). It is very simple, similar to VB6. They also have versions for iOS, Linux, and several others. b4x.com is the website.
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Chris Maunder wrote: Once I get this working
It's much easier to enjoy the favor of both friend and foe, and not give a damn who's who. -- Lon Milo DuQuette
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Genuinely curious as I don't do that kind of stuff...
Is the problem ios development tools ? or cross-platform development ?
I'd rather be phishing!
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