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OriginalGriff wrote: taking it out of context
How did I take it out of context? I agreed with you.  Should I have disagreed? 
OriginalGriff wrote: it wouldn't have killed over half million people already?
Are you suggesting masks should be worn forever now? Because there always has been and always will be the chance of you carrying a lethal disease around. It's a serious question.
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Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Quote: Exactly.
Exactly what? Are you saying because it doesn't work 100% of the time we shouldn't bother? That's just plain stupidity - unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people out there that think this way.
Social distancing is the same, it's not 100% (it couldn't be) but it's better than nothing.
We have forgotten the most effective protection (both for others and oneself), stay at home - still not 100% because of those disease-ridden delivery guys (sorry delivery guys, you are doing a great job, just making a point).
As OG said, it's a statistics game.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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� Forogar � wrote: Exactly what? Are you saying because it doesn't work 100% of the time we shouldn't bother?
No. I agreed.  You people read too much into what I say. Stop adding your own bias in.
My original point was that masks are not the "end-all" that many have claimed they were. And to enforce social distancing proves that masks aren't the "end-all". That's all.
� Forogar � wrote: stay at home
We had a coworker come to work for an entire day with symptoms. Her manager finally realized it and sent her home. She tested positive. No one else in the office got it even though she likely had it on her for at least a couple of days. On a scale of 1-10 of apocolyptic viruses, this thing is a 2. It's just not as bad as everyone wants to make it. If people are freaking out this much about a 2, what will happen when we have a 7 or 8? People will die just from anxiety. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Quote: No one else in the office got it
Cube walls are amazingly absorbent!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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� Forogar � wrote: Cube walls are amazingly absorbent
Possibly, but they are in an open office area. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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...yet another blow against the pernicious "open office"!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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True.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: On a scale of 1-10 of apocolyptic viruses, this thing is a 2.
Says who? Using what metrics?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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David Crow wrote: Says who? Using what metrics?
Me and my brain. I'm open to debate though.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: No. I agreed.
Then you should have said: "Agree"
ZurdoDev wrote: You people read too much into what I say. Stop adding your own bias in.
As you would have never used the "exactly" just in the other way around, to remark your point instead of agreeing with someone.
Don't forget we are programmers and we don't have the visual communication. Words might be way too vague depending on the context.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: Words might be way too vague depending on the context.
definitely true.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Whether to close an establishment, or enforce the wearing of masks and social distancing within it, should be up to the owner of each establishment. People can then decide whether its rules are acceptable to them by choosing to enter the establishment or not.
Instead we have one-size-fits-all solutions mandated by the usual control freaks who have no skin in the game.
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So true.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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OriginalGriff wrote: Masks do work - the research shows that
The problem I have is that I also hear scientists speak out and say that there is no conclusive research that shows that in the general population masks have any effect.
The UK government does not reveal the discussions or evidence on which they make decisions.
We had previously been told that in the general population masks have no effect, then suddenly we are informed that we need to wear masks.
What is the evidence that drove this sudden and radical change of policy?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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GuyThiebaut wrote: What is the evidence that drove this sudden and radical change of policy?
The politician's syllogism:
We must do something.
This is something.
Therefore, we must do this.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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ZurdoDev wrote: It seems that if you are saying we still need to stay away from each other even with masks on you're really saying that masks don't work.
Your logic is flawed.
Masks work; not to protect the one who wears it, but the people around it. During surgery, the doctor wears a mask to protect you, not him.
And even if you were under the assumption that masks protect you; there's this advice to not shake hands and not to touch your face - breathing in the virus is not the only way it enters the body.
I keep hearing the argument that masks don't work, even from the government here. So we have no requirement to wear them, while the countries around us made them mandatory.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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You misunderstood my point. Masks help. But they do not "work" as a solution, which many people have claimed masks are a solution.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: You misunderstood my point.
Your original point was rather clear.
ZurdoDev wrote: But they do not "work" as a solution, which many people have claimed masks are a solution.
No one made that claim.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Your original point was rather clear.
I don't think you understood it. I wonder if you can repeat it back in your own words, just to show that you did understand it.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: No one made that claim.
Tons of people have made that claim. Not sure where you have been.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: Tons of people have made that claim.
Who are these people? Not once in four months have I seen/heard such a claim. Maybe you saw it on the internet and took it as fact?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Search the forum for the word tantamount and you'll see a fellow CP member claiming that not wearing one is the same as murder.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: I don't think you understood it. I wonder if you can repeat it back in your own words, just to show that you did understand it.
I needn't, I can quote you. (I be harsh as usual, but do read on)
ZurdoDev wrote: It seems that if you are saying we still need to stay away from each other even with masks on you're really saying that masks don't work.
..but if you want it in my words; you imply that masks don't work, without having the guts to make the claim. Pretty sure that's too harsh and am pleased that you at least think about it without simply accepting it. Doubt everything said Socrates and that includes anything I say. One who doubts knows more than he who thinks he knows. (You the doubter, I'm the one making claims now).
ZurdoDev wrote: Tons of people have made that claim. Not sure where you have been.
Let me repeat that; no one made the claim that masks give full protection. Shaking hands has been discouraged since the outbreak - how does a mask help you with that? It's not a hazmat suit. (Although I would recommend throw-away plastic gloves depending on what you need to touch - and no guarantees there either, just like condoms).
And again; a mask is not for your protection; it won't be sterile long, and it doesn't protect you from people who sneeze in your eyes. It does limit the travel-distance of air from the person who wears it. So yes, despite our governments' claim that they don't, they do work. Not for protection, but against spreading.
That's why we distance. Both don't guarantee that you won't get sick; if a sick person sneezes on a railing, and you touch the railing and scratch your eyelid you may still get infected. Go to any supermarket here, and people still touching fruit and veggies to see if they ripe.
Now, I can completely understand an individual being confused; at least those who are prove they are thinking - I'd applaud anyone who was and tries to find a decent and logical answer. What I cannot understand is how our government is confused, while spending a lot of money on experts.
150+75 well paid people form our government. There's an "Outbreak Management Team", and our government decided last week to ask the OMT if masks could help. Let that sink in for a bit. We, as a nation, with 225 paid officials and a mountain of experts, are clueless about what a mask does, and did not see a reason to inquire until a week ago.
Not saying you were confused, as it only "seemed" so; but you outperform 225 paid officials. I'd vote for you.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: you imply that masks don't work, without having the guts to make the claim.
Nope.
I'll say it again. People have claimed that masks are a solution and clearly they are not. And by admitting you need social distancing you are also admitting that masks are not the solution.
It's just that simple.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: I'll say it again. People have claimed that masks are a solution and clearly they are not.
Now you sound like someone inquiring by a doctor for "a friend" 
ZurdoDev wrote: And by admitting you need social distancing you are also admitting that masks are not the solution.
There is no solution. Masks and social distancing make transmission harder. As do plastic gloves and condoms. None proposed them as a solution. (And please don't wear condoms all the time).
Well, not none. Media gets money for their headlines. If you believe the media you already a lost soul.
Masks are not a solution. Full-body-condoms aren't a solution. Eventually you take that thing off and need to sh*t, and most people do not own a private sh*thouse. If we did, that'd be a bigger problem; we need to be attacked by germs. Our immune systems needs it. Let me repeat that; you NEED something that attacks your immune system. George Carlin never got sick.
George Carlin - Germs, Immune System - YouTube[^]
"We were tempered in RAW SH*T"
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I agree with all of the mature points you made, regardless of all the juvenile methods used to make the points.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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