Hardware & Devices

18-Jul-07 1:51

Hii Friends,

I have set a desktop machine as a Server with windows 2003 server installed and which will be up 24/7 due to file sharing requirements and web application deployed which has been used to share through Intranet.

The machine configuration is as follows

1.7 ghz, 845 Intel Chipset,
512 Ram and 60 gb harddisk

I wanted to know can i keep this machine 24/7 up. Will it impact the machine??

Nikhil Bandekar
Mumbai,
India

r41n©18-Jul-07 3:52

r41n©

18-Jul-07 3:52

Hello

Well, i'm no pro, but as far as i know major issues for servers are (in no particular order):

- Temperature (aka Heat dissipation)
- OS stability
- Component quality and thus reliability
- Power flow stability

Keeping a machine powered on 24/7 WILL impact, always.
While a usual PC gets old enough without failing machines that are on 24/7 usually fail much sooner, the only think you can do is preventing unnecessary stress on the components.

First of you need to make sure that the server is backed up through a good UPS (http://www.apcc.com).
Dirty power (also caused by Thunderstorms) can damage hard drives and almost any other component of your server. The longer the machine runs the more probable it will be that some power spike will damage your hard drives.

The next issue i would think of is heat. If your machine has a bad airflow inside the case your risk to damage your CPU or motherboard and HDs. Less heat means longer life for all components. The longer the machine is powered on the longer it components will suffer if heat inside the case is not removed through fans. 2 Big fans, in the front and on the back of the case would be a minimum i think.
I would recommend you to get a good server case (http://www.antec.com, if money ain't a big issue.

Since you already use a Server OS i guess there is nothing much to say about this, it should be pretty reliable and stable.

Last, but not least, are components.

Then components that fail soonest are HDs and PSUs (Power Supply Units).
Usually servers have 2 PSUs, when the first fails the second one jumps in and the first can be replaced. But looking at your specs i don't think you will need to worry about this.
Just keep in mind that a good and powerful PSU lives longer (if you machine consumes, say, an average of 100W and your PSU only delivers 200W MAX it will probably be dead sooner than a PSU that delivers 300W max.

What really matters here is the number of clients on your intranet.
512mb RAM and a single 60gb HD could be a bit weak.

A server OS can be pretty RAM intensive, it runs many services and has to service the clients, so 512mb RAM could turn out to be not enough for a server. Especially if there are quite a few clients logged on the server downloading data over and over again those 512mb could end used up pretty soon. I would say get another 512mb and make 1gb.

The HD is probably the weakest part of a computer, since it is still mechanical, maybe you should consider to make a simple mirror raid with two 60gb HDs.
This way preventing loss of data when you HD will fail.
Your HD will fail sooner or later, because a system that runs 24/7 fails much faster than a PC that is, if it comes up, turned on just 1/3 of a day.
Moreover if you use that server for file sharing, and you have quite some clients on your intranet, that will put your HD under particular stress. Thus producing more heat and failing sooner.

On the other hand if your intranet has only few clients and the server is only used a few times a day you can safely ignore the raid (as long as you keep backups of your data).
If your clients have to transfer data to/from the server only a few times a day you can also turn on the windows power saving for your HD. The HD will be turned of when not needed, this will help to prolong the life of the HD. This will harm performance though (since the HD needs to turn on again when a request comes in), so this is only an option if your intranet is pretty small and your server will not be used frequently.

I hope this will help you out.
Good luck Smile | :)

#realJSOP19-Jul-07 0:08

19-Jul-07 0:08

r41n© wrote:
machines that are on 24/7 usually fail much sooner

That's completely untrue. My wifes old machine was on 24/7 for over 8 years without so much as a hiccup. That machine was replaced simply because it was pretty damn old.

"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001

Nikhil Bandekar19-Jul-07 1:08

19-Jul-07 1:08

Can i know what would be the electricity consuption for one desktop pc with 400 watts powersupply. I am talking only about a Processing unit and not monitor.

What was the actual purpose to keep your machine on for 24/7?

Which OS was installed in the machine and what was its config?

Thanks

Nikhil Bandekar
Mumbai,
India

Dan Neely19-Jul-07 2:25

Dan Neely

19-Jul-07 2:25

YOu can buy hardware to measure it. The one I have is called Kill-A-Watt, and can be found online for $25US. No idea about availability in your part of the world. Depending on how many and how highend the parts in the system are probably somewhere between 100-300W average at full CPU load.

--
You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer

#realJSOP20-Jul-07 7:52

20-Jul-07 7:52

Nikhil Bandekar wrote:
What was the actual purpose to keep your machine on for 24/7?

Because turning it off and on everyday wears out the electronics.

Nikhil Bandekar wrote:
Which OS was installed in the machine and what was its config?

Windows 2000 Pro.

The machine was home-built and resided in a full tower case:

AMD Thunderbird 1ghz CPU
Abit BH6 motherboard (or something like that)
768MB of PC133 RAM
two 60gb IDE hard drives
Various video cards
SB Audigy sound card
Netgear 310TX NIC
400w power supply

r41n©25-Jul-07 13:37

r41n©

25-Jul-07 13:37

If you drive your car 24/7 or just a few hours a day you will see a big difference, especially for mechanical parts (HDs & FANs), this is the same for every machine. The more it is used the sooner the materials it is made of will get damaged.
Just because your car ran that long it doesn't mean every car will.

#realJSOP25-Jul-07 23:47

25-Jul-07 23:47

r41n© wrote:
ust because your car ran that long it doesn't mean every car will.

Well, duh... I was giving anecdotal evidence that contradicts your theoretical claims.

We're not talking about cars - we're talking about electronics, and we're really not even talking about the fans in a computer. I've been assembling my own systems since 1985, and have been leaving them on 24/7 since 1980. I've *never* had a system fail in all that time.

Shouvik Das18-Jul-07 19:01

Shouvik Das

18-Jul-07 19:01

As r41n(C) has already covered the most of the aspect I would like to take up a few more...

o If you are just planning to use it as a File Server which really is a critical job please go for a higher RAM. The reason as the number of concurrent requests will increase the more swapping would be necessary and hence you would unnecessarily stress your HARD DISK...

o Please settle for a SATA disk rather than an IDE which would be cheap and an alternative solution.

o With an 845 Chipset though it is not a Bad Idea to host a File server but it is better you shift off to ICH6 Controlled 945 Mobos which will give better power supply...keep a minimun of 400 W SMPS. Moreover the 945 series will have better on Board RAID Support.

o Whenever you host any server your prime objective would be least maintainance and less failures and MTTR(Mean Time to Recover). So once your Server goes online 24x7 it means it is under less monitoring and more prone to attacks. Have stringent firewalls and also keep a day in a week as maintainance time where u can monitor the health of the disk.

o By your config it looks that you are trying to shunt an Old PC but then you are making it useful as a File Server...So if u don't mind spending a few more bucks please settle for 7200 RPM disk which will reduce the latency time for transactions...

o Now coming back to your Original question...any equipment running 24x7 has few enemies...

oUse heat conducting gels b/w ur CPU and Heat Sink...have a very good ventilation...keep a watch that no fans fail.

oRefrain from stashing the PC(Server) at an unnoticed corner as u would feel it is just a file server, better keep a watch from rat/lizard/ant infestations(believe me I have seen hard disks crashing due to ant infestation)

oMost important the power supply robust. Don't let it suffer any electrical surges.

Happy Computing Big Grin | :-D

There are only two kinds of people who are really fascinating-people who know absolutely everything, and people who know absolutely nothing.
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Regards...
Shouvik

Nikhil Bandekar18-Jul-07 21:40

18-Jul-07 21:40

It’s really very helpful information from both of you. I have noted down your suggestions. But now I am into two minds. What if I purchase an entry level server, it can solve my purpose with less investment and it will also be reliable as well. If I go with the same old machine I will have to upgrade it as suggested. I have minimum 60 users for accessing the same set server. So which entry level server do you recommend?

Thanks for you Reply

Nikhil Bandekar
Mumbai,
India

Shouvik Das18-Jul-07 21:59

Shouvik Das

18-Jul-07 21:59

great!!! you are thinking absolutely right pal Big Grin | :-D

60 Users are not really a less to find. If they concurrently access the server then you might be in trouble too. and overhead charges for securing your system would really cost you something in which u can really settle for a dedicated server.

If you really wabt to go for an entry level server you can buy in around 30K
http://dellstoreroa02.sg.dell.com/public/cart/configurator.jsp?prd_id=41167&sr_no=1[^]

or else with robust functionalities and as well rack mounted 1U server then go for 93k
http://dellstoreroa02.sg.dell.com/public/cart/configurator.jsp?prd_id=41174&sr_no=2[^]

I know the latter is a bit costly but it all is in ur needs
Hope I could help you out.

Please revert back for further details
Big Grin | :-D

There are only two kinds of people who are really fascinating-people who know absolutely everything, and people who know absolutely nothing.
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Regards...
Shouvik

#realJSOP19-Jul-07 0:25

19-Jul-07 0:25

First, you should reconsider running a server OS because all infrastructure software costs more if you're running a server OS. Backup software, anti-vrus software, defrag software - everything costs more. Take my advice and run XP Pro instead.

As far as hardware is concerned:

1) You need as much memory as the OS can support, especially if you're serving web pages. For XP, max supported memory is 3gb. For 2003 Server, I think it's 8gb.

2) Your CPU is pretty slow, but you may get decent performance as long as your web pages aren't very popular.

3) If you're serving files on your intranet AND serving web pages, I'd use three separate hard drives, a 60gb for the OS, a 80gb for the web sites, and at least a 320gb for intranet files.

4) Invest in a decent name-brand power supply. The power supplies that come in most computer cases are just barely able to do the job. I would get nothing smaller than a 500w PSU.

5) Make sure you have a decent case. A case with LOTS of room, and that supports at LEAST two 120mm fans. Heat kills electronics. A small case allows a lot of heat build up.

6) Get the cheapest video card you can find. There's no reason to have a fancy video card on a server. I think the one I have in my server cost me $15 new, and the circuit board is a little larger than a credit card. It generates almost no heat at all.

7) Invest in a large UPS - at least 1500vA. If you lose power, you don't want your server to shut itself down

8) To effect prompt repairs, always keep spare parts available. Essentially, you should have enough parts to actually build a second machine.

Leaving the machine on 24/7 is actually better for it than powering it up and down every day. The reason is the small power surge that hits all the components when you turn it on.

Above and beyond all of the above, always buy quality retail components. If nothing else you'll have a warranty so you can replace stuff that breaks prematurely.

Nikhil Bandekar19-Jul-07 1:10

19-Jul-07 1:10

Can you explain me the following sentence,

"The reason is the small power surge that hits all the components when you turn it on."

Thanks

Nikhil Bandekar
Mumbai,
India

originSH20-Jul-07 5:16

20-Jul-07 5:16

When you turn the machine on there is a small power surge :P

originSH20-Jul-07 5:18

20-Jul-07 5:18

Also powering up/down creates differences in temperature that cause everything to expand and contract.

password

chapathi17-Jul-07 23:28

chapathi

17-Jul-07 23:28

how to break the password of another person id if they were using nos in password

vivek nanda

Re: password

originSH18-Jul-07 1:45

18-Jul-07 1:45

chapathi wrote:
how to break the password of another person id if they were using nos in password

Password for what?

nos? National Osteoporosis Society? Nitrous Oxide Systems?

Why would you want to break someone elses password other than for dodgy reasons?

Re: password

chapathi18-Jul-07 2:21

chapathi

18-Jul-07 2:21

bcoz one dog had theft my cash.... am having only his id if i break his password then i can trace him and futher it wonn happen to anyone else thats y.

vivek nanda

Re: password

originSH18-Jul-07 3:07

NO. of Ethernet port and No.of configured NIC

18-Jul-07 3:07

chapathi wrote:
bcoz one dog had theft my cash.... am having only his id if i break his password then i can trace him and futher it wonn happen to anyone else thats y.

Well thats not the right way to go about it and it's illegal so go ask somewhere else.

Sonani Prakash17-Jul-07 23:13

Sonani Prakash

17-Jul-07 23:13

Hi
Anybody having idea how to detect the no. of ethernet port and no. of configured NIC cards in to computer.
any api calls help ?
Please write your views on this.

sonani prakash

originSH18-Jul-07 1:46

18-Jul-07 1:46

WMI is always good for retriving this sort of stuff.

Sonani Prakash18-Jul-07 8:35

Sonani Prakash

18-Jul-07 8:35

Thanks for pointing out.
But currenlty I am thing i can first get the adaptor information and then can see if it is ethernet adaptor or not..
but how to find whether it' is ethernet adapter or wirless adaptor or any other..

Is there any way to get from this adaptor that it is 802.3 standard adaptor or
802.11 for wirless.

Thanks in advance.

sonani prakash

Dave Kreskowiak18-Jul-07 9:08

Dave Kreskowiak

18-Jul-07 9:08

Again, WMI and the Win32_NetworkAdapter class. You can get the configurations with the Win32_NetworkAdapterConfiguration class. Search for those two classes on MSDN.

A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]

Dave Kreskowiak
Microsoft MVP
Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007