Bugs and Suggestions

Attention quick-draw QA-question removers (you know who you are): slow down the trigger-finger !

27-Oct-14 6:44

Please send me an email and I will dig into the matter for you.

Thanks,
Sean Ewington
CodeProject

BillWoodruff24-Oct-14 16:15

24-Oct-14 16:15

This post is, partially, "inspired" by CHill's recent post here: "Up the number of reports to close a QA question?" ... but, I am starting a new thread because what I have to say is, I believe, on a different "level." I want to "frame" the issue of deleting QA posts by focusing on the broader context ... the thread as a whole including any comments, or posted solutions ... in which a given question appears.

This question exists in the context of the weird fact that deleted QA questions get stripped of their comments, and any posted solutions, yet continue to appear visible on the Forums: an absurdity resulting in wasted time for everyone: unless you consider reading "closed" notices fascinating Smile | :)

That structural flaw is something only CP staff can address. In this post I choose to ignore the related phenomenon of rapid down-voting of new questions by certain very "dominant" participants in the QA forums.

When a QA question is:

0. accompanied by some included code (not a "code-dump") that indicates the OP is struggling with writing code themselves.

|| 1. quite "fresh" in time

|| 2. by someone relatively new to CodeProject, or someone whose use of English indicates they have great difficulty writing it.

|| 3. has had meaningful questions posted as comments on the OP which ask for clarification, etc.

|| 4. has had solution(s) ... particularly those that include working code ... posted by other CP members with good track-records (note: I do not assume that rep-points, or MVP status, have any linear relation to "good track record" here, since I consider the entire CP rep-system ... except for articles ... "structurally distorted, and frequently abused").

Then, I believe that closing the question before it has had some minimum "life-span" is a dis-service to CodeProject.

If other CP members who are obviously making a contribution to QA by posting working code, and thoughtful comments, take their time to post on a thread: closing it not only discards that content, but it also creates a dis-incentive for the person who is truly trying to be helpful on QA.

For example, when a question like this one: [^] ... posted, apparently in the later night-time in the US ... is closed within hours of its being posted, it's possible the OP has not even had a chance, during their daylight hours, to review the question, and its comments, and any posted solutions. On this question I asked several questions in a comment, and would have, likely, posted code, if the OP had answered.

I took the trouble to post a working code solution for this question [^], which I experienced as quite a clear question in the sense the OP showed at least some code.

The dangers of ignoring context are expressed clearly to me in statements like this one by a frequent quick-question-closer:

"Worst case scenario, the user asks the question again and hopefully adds some detail."

This completely ignores the fact that for many people, having a question removed may be experienced as a complete ... fill in the blank ... personal/intellectual rejection, breaking of face, insult, go-away-stay-away sign, etc. Note that those with their questions removed, to my knowledge, receive no notice of the question being closed, certainly no encouragement to post again.

I could go on further ... and farther ... but, if I haven't highlighted any issues that need to be addressed ... and which, if addressed, would result in a "better" CodeProject QA ... by this time, I'd say that what you have heard here is only burble.

« There is only one difference between a madman and me. The madman thinks he is sane. I know I am mad. » Salvador Dali

modified 28-Oct-14 8:43am.

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter26-Oct-14 0:01

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

26-Oct-14 0:01

Even your comments are valuable and have a lot of truth in it I think it is wrong to mention people by name. That too can be " experienced as a complete ... fill in the blank ... personal/intellectual rejection, breaking of face, insult, go-away-stay-away sign, etc"...

Re: OT

BillWoodruff26-Oct-14 3:21

Re: Attention quick-draw QA-question removers (you know who you are): slow down the trigger-finger !

26-Oct-14 3:21

I take your point, and I think it was, at the least, less than diplomatic ... at the worst, downright rude ... to mention the good names of certain persons without, at the same time, mentioning that they make great contributions here to QA and CodeProject, and are people I respect.

I have removed the names from the title of the post, and the post.

thanks, Bill

« There is only one difference between a madman and me. The madman thinks he is sane. I know I am mad. » Salvador Dali

Re: OT

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter26-Oct-14 3:24

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

26-Oct-14 3:24

(Please see my proposal two post above...)

Keith Barrow26-Oct-14 6:37

Keith Barrow

26-Oct-14 6:37

Agree with the points you raised. The point about time zones and not having had the chance to review their own question is a interesting and a good one.

Perhaps we need a semi-rejected status for unclear questions, giving people some time to re-phrase their question without actually closing it, if no response within, say 24 hours of "rejection" it gets properly removed.

Also point 3 - actual question emerging in comments discussion - could we add a mechanism to transfer into the main body?

Alberto Brandolini:
The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.

Re: Attention quick-draw QA-question removers (you know who you are): slow down the trigger-finger !

Richard Deeming27-Oct-14 2:47

Richard Deeming

27-Oct-14 2:47

Keith Barrow wrote:
Perhaps we need a semi-rejected status for unclear questions, giving people some time to re-phrase their question without actually closing it, if no response within, say 24 hours of "rejection" it gets properly removed.

"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer

Re: Attention quick-draw QA-question removers (you know who you are): slow down the trigger-finger !

Richard Deeming27-Oct-14 9:42

Richard Deeming

27-Oct-14 9:42

As someone who could sometimes be accused of having an itchy trigger-finger when it comes to poor-quality questions Blush | :O

, I've got some ideas on improving the situation:

Spam/abusive:
No change. The question should be deleted, along with any comments or answers.

Off-topic:
Close the question, but leave any existing comments and answers visible.
(If there are none, then remove the question.)

Repost:
The reporter should be required to provide a link to where the question was previously posted.
This must be a link to another QA question or a forum post on CodeProject.
The source item must have been posted earlier than the question being reported.
Links to the non-programming forums should be excluded, as the OP was probably told to repost in QA.

Unclear or incomplete:
Change the wording from "Closed" to "On hold" or something similar.
Prompt the OP to update the question with the missing details.
Leave all existing comments and answers visible, and allow new comments and solutions to be posted.
Users who have already posted a solution, can vote to re-open.
Anyone posting a new solution registers as a vote to re-open.
Any edit to the question re-opens it.

Not a question:
Not sure about this one. To my mind, this is usually the no effort, "send me teh codez ITZ URGENT" type questions, or the "here's a code-dump without any question" questions. Perhaps these should be treated in the same way as the off-topic questions - close them, but leave existing comments and answers visible.

"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer

Re: Attention quick-draw QA-question removers (you know who you are): slow down the trigger-finger !

BillWoodruff28-Oct-14 23:46

Re: Attention quick-draw QA-question removers (you know who you are): slow down the trigger-finger !

28-Oct-14 23:46

I like your ideas, Richard. In the past I've proposed (on this forum) that certain-minimum-rep-level CP members (based on 'Authority rank ?) have the "right" to put a "hold" on a question so it can't be deleted for some period of time.

cheers, Bill

« I am putting myself to the fullest possible use which is all, I think, that any conscious entity can ever hope to do » HAL (Heuristically programmed ALgorithmic computer) in "2001, A Space Odyssey"

Chris Maunder29-Oct-14 8:10

Chris Maunder

29-Oct-14 8:10

BillWoodruff wrote:
the weird fact that deleted QA questions get stripped of their comments, and any posted solutions, yet continue to appear visible on the Forums:

The thinking here is to

1. Make it clear that that poor questions can actually be closed
2. Provide an opportunity for a civic minded person to reopen (and edit) a question to give it purpose.

BillWoodruff wrote:
f other CP members who are obviously making a contribution to QA by posting working code, and thoughtful comments, take their time to post on a thread: closing it not only discards that content, but it also creates a dis-incentive for the person who is truly trying to be helpful on QA.

I completely agree, and would prefer a question not be answered if it's clear that there's been little or not effort in posing the question. I know that sounds harsh, and I certainly don't want to get to the level of elitism and agro over at SO, but there should certainly be a minimum level of clarity and effort required from those posting questions.

I dislike encouraging poor behaviour. On both sides of the fence.

cheers
Chris Maunder

Lost my article - Help appreciated

Dr. Song Li23-Oct-14 14:08

23-Oct-14 14:08

I just finished editing an article named "Start unit test code coverage by Jacoco" (or something like that if I do not remember correctly), but when I tried to submit it, I get an error on the web page, and I then lost the article.

I have tried to save the "Draft" all the time, now I do not even see the draft. I am not sure if you can help me to recover the draft.

Any help is appreciated, so I do not need to re-do the typing.

Thanks,
Song

Sean Ewington24-Oct-14 3:46

24-Oct-14 3:46

I'm so sorry, I can't seem to find any draft either

Thanks,
Sean Ewington
CodeProject

Dr. Song Li24-Oct-14 3:50

24-Oct-14 3:50

It is OK. But if you do find anything, please let me know. I remember that Chris helped to solve some similar problems a couple of years ago. Thanks anyway, Song

Sean Ewington24-Oct-14 3:53

24-Oct-14 3:53

Please give me some time. I'll dig deeper.

Thanks,
Sean Ewington
CodeProject

Dr. Song Li24-Oct-14 3:57

24-Oct-14 3:57

Sure. Thanks, Song

Sean Ewington24-Oct-14 4:13

24-Oct-14 4:13

We have dug, but could not find. Frown | :(

Quick series of questions for you, if you please:

- Did you press Submit at all?

- Was your process to edit and keep editing the auto-saved drafts?

- Was it an article that was previously pending?

Thanks,
Sean Ewington
CodeProject

Dr. Song Li24-Oct-14 4:25

Up the number of reports to close a QA question?

24-Oct-14 4:25

1. Yes, I did submit (with editing not to make public checked). But after clicking the submit button I then see an error page (the page shows a picture some bugs and some broken wires). I then clicked the back button on the web browser (I do not remember what the back button gave me, but it was something that was meaningless), when I refresh the page, I no longer see anything related to the article that I am working on. Smile | :)

2. I used the codeproject's submit wizard to edit the article. It tells me that the draft will be auto-saved. It does save automatic draft based on my previous experience, but not this time.

3. I do not remember if I have previously pending articles.

CHill6023-Oct-14 11:10

CHill60

23-Oct-14 11:10

I know we get some absolute rubbish in there, but several seem to get closed down for no real good reason ... e.g. Path trough command?[^]
I worked out what he meant, clearly SA did too... although I never did get to see what he posted. Only 2 people quoted as deeming it unsuitable ... up to 5 maybe??

Re: Up the number of reports to close a QA question?

Richard MacCutchan23-Oct-14 22:10

Richard MacCutchan

23-Oct-14 22:10

CHill60 wrote:
clearly SA did too

So why did he vote to have it closed?

Re: Up the number of reports to close a QA question?

BillWoodruff24-Oct-14 8:52