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Come on man! Have you no spunk?
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Hey we are both Master Debators. I think that reveals a lot of spunk!
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No, I never talk to large groups - I'm no Mass Debater!
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: Mass Debater
I thought that was a physicist arguing over the existence of Dark Matter.
Say goodnight Dave. Goodnight Dave!
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
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We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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The nonsense swallowed by pond-life is of interest to a man down-under (7)
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
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socks match?, Pah! away with your none-sense...
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The sweet taste of freedom! I could leave the house with a clown's costume and Missy is not there to tell Kunta that he is behaving very very bad. Or a superhero costume. Maybe just mismatching socks?
Not that I do any of that very often, but I could.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote: Not that I do any of that very often, but I could.
True freedom... The ability to choose not to do!!!
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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Well, actually just a side effect. The real freedom lies in coming home from work and not being nagged and pestered into doing something. Also, there never are any financial debates.
'On the issue of buying a new helicopter: 1 voted 'Aye', 0 voted 'Nay', 0 abstained. Approved.'
It has been like that for decades! Paradise!
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I have all identical winter socks and all identical summer socks. Can't mismatch them - usually I do laundry in the evening...
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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You amateur.
I have tube socks I wear with long pants, and short socks for shorts and when I run. All white, all identical.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Socks - what are these sock things you talk of?
I live in Cairns and Singapore.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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I've been following with interest the evolution of ,NET Core, and was interested to read the latest from MS in the article cited by Kent yesterday: [^] which included the following:Quote: t a recent Visual Studio Live! conference, Microsoft's Beth Massi indicated that .NET Core is definitely the future -- even for those Windows desktop applications -- and it was time for developers to get onboard.
Specifically, the message was that future .NET Core versions would support those desktop apps, obviating the earlier advice about which applications should be ported.
"As we move forward into the future, with .NET Core 3, we're going to see some more workloads that we're going to be working on here, mainly Windows desktop," Massi said. "We're bringing Windows desktop workloads to .NET Core 3, as well as AI and IoT scenarios.
"The big deal here is now that if you're a WinForms or WPF developer you can actually utilize the .NET Core runtime."
Okay, what puzzles me is that I never seem to hear anything about what a developer who creates apps with rich visual interfaces involving complex controls ... does.
I assume (wrongly ?) that the quirky set of WinForm controls (wrappers around COM based cores) we've had since the late neolithic cannot be used since they depend on low-level Win API stuff.
So, where's the TreeView, the ListView, the DateTimePicker ? What if I need a grid, a useful grid, not something like that abomination called 'DataGridView ? I gotta pony-up mega-bucks to Telerik, SyncFusion, etc. ?
If there is a "march" going on here, I hope it's not a "death march," like the WPF, or SilverLight, or "Modern UI" disasters.
cheers, old fossil, Bill
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
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I ported my desktop app from Framework to Core. The native compiler being beta code it ran for a few hours before crashing. Not cool.
Currently pursuing C++/CLR mixed code as my use case is to avoid decompilation.
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Bill, WPF is hardly in a death march. It's in the same position as Windows Forms in that there is a team supporting it, it does get some enhancements and it's very much alive for the foreseeable future. If it were dead, or near death, Microsoft would have to invest a huge amount of time in rewriting the Visual Studio UI which uses it heavily. I get it, you don't like it, but that doesn't mean it's dead and buried or that there aren't plenty of people who do like it and use it a lot.
This space for rent
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Hi, Pete, I do not hate WPF ! I'm in awe of what people like you, Josh Smith, Sacha Barber, and others, did/do with it.
I have great respect for the excellent facilities WPF has compared to WinForms: orthogonal vector rendering for everything; dependency management, powerful binding, support for animations, property change notifications, etc.
I do feel that Win developers got led a merry chase in the whole trauma a la Sinofsky regarding MS waffling on technical support for WPF going forward, killing SilverLight ... I know you know what I am talking about here. imho, the confusion was only intensified by the abortive Win RT thing, and the Modern UI debacle that led to Sinofsky's departure.
In addition, the first (current ?) schizoid VS UI for developing in WPF with split window and dysfunctional relationship between XAML, GUI, and "code-first:" imho that turned a lot of people off, at the same time engendering the cult of savants who styled themselves the "WPF Disciples," your good self included 
To wit: the transformation of our own esteemed mentor, Marc Clifton, from early XAML pioneer to recent statements, here, that, now, he hates it.
Do you believe these events I mention did not impair the adoption of WPF, and cause companies and devs to lose time and money ? Do you believe that WPF is, now, even considered a prime candidate for new projects in major software houses who are being dragged into mobile+desktop/cross-platform/ web-centric apps willing-or-not ?
From my point of view: if all that time and money had been invested into transforming WinForms so it had a vector-based retained mode 2d graphic engine, and all the other advanced goodness of WPF, and made cross platform in the ways that Core and Xamarin are doing now with Win: WinForms would be "on top of the world," and all god's children would have shoes.
But, the modal "culture" of software development seems to be cycles of the next shiny thing getting the glory, the development money, the buzz ... meanwhile, back at the ranch Joe and Betty developer often get by using the older tool-sets, performing what I call "dinosaur dentistry" to shimmy their work into awkward symbiosis with the latest.
Today, I was reading an update on Xamarin Forms 3.3: [^] ... oh glory, they now have labels and buttons, and images, kind-a working better ! The article's sub-title: "Little Things, Huge Difference."
By the way, I am not complaining because the world is degenerating into a circus where the developer lingua franca devolves into the mis-named thing called JavaScript incestuously paired with an archaic mark-up system HTML) in a menage a trois with an abstraction (CSS) of said mark-up system
More seriously, I really am delighted with what C# and WinForms evolved into, including a robust and vibrant 3rd. party tools industry. The ReoGrid project by Jing Lu [^], published here, and now, once again, open-source is a fantastic Excel equivalent complete with scripting in C#, deep customizability, etc. I still use the incredible WinForm TreeView from Lidor Systems (no longer in development; Andrej, the sole developer, has moved on to developing Angular controls).
cheers, Bill
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
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I'm reading these out of order, but this is another great write-up.
Maybe you ought to write up an article on this. Something like, "State of Windows Desktop Development: What Has Been, What Is, and What Will It Be?"
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I appreciate your kind words, Raddevus, but Bill (now seventy-five, and near half-blind) is no one to talk about "big picture" software development in the last few years.
Bill is busy making rings to sell so he can hopefully save his eyes while remaining in the strange country, Thailand, he has come to love; and, when he's not doing that, or pursuing his own creative writing, or studying the iconography of Asian sacred/animist art, ancient trade routes, and folklore ... he finds little time for pursuing programming and pulling his oar in QA
My hope is that my somewhat hyperbolic comments may evoke some response from the many people here on CP I consider mentors, friends, colleagues ... who, I believe, are much more up-to-date than I am.
cheers, Bill
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
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BillWoodruff wrote: considered a prime candidate for new projects in major software houses
I'd be astonished if any major shops are considering anything other than web based UIs. I think WPF has devolved into a mainly corporate tool.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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In tech, you have 2 types of evolutions.
The slow paced evolutions that move at a glacial pace and but also effect the entire industry.
The fast paced novelty gimmicks mostly used to distract us, so we don't get bored waiting for the glacial shifts to produce results.
.NET Core is the glacially slow type. Initially, around 2008 I think(?), it's purpose was to get embedded devices to run C# and compete directly with embedded Java platforms.
Shifts in the embedded market (raspberry PI for low-cost and the crushing dominance of Java for anything else) altered those plans over time, and Core was eventually repurposed as a cross platform CLR.
After waiting what seemed like an eternity, we eventually got a useable version with the release of 2.0.
The upcoming WinForms and WPF support is hype / a pitch designed to increase enterprise adoption rate; it's mostly a distraction.
Once the Mono team gets Core running on WASM, we'll probably get an alternative UI stack that will eventually end up dominating the market.
Probably HTML based? Maybe XAML? We'll have to wait and see. I personally hope for XAML, but anything XML based is fine really.
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