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Do you know wo makes these questions?
Mazy
Don't Marry a Person You Can Live With...
Marry Someone You Can Not Live Without
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
[Managed C++ for GUIs, C# for business logic]
Chris was just seeing if you were asleep for once 
Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."
- Paul Watson
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Andy Metcalfe wrote:
Chris was just seeing if you were asleep for once
Yeah, probably 
Nish
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to ![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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Damn that was quick. I just can't sneak one past you can I?
Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."
- Paul Watson
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Andy Metcalfe wrote:
Damn that was quick. I just can't sneak one past you can I?
LOL
I didnt know you were attempting to sneak one past me.
They don't call me "Ghost who walks on CP" for nothing.
Nish [CP Phantom]
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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To the person who said 'I am a C++ programmer and have not been told to target .NET', the point of the question is that it's hypothetical.
To the guy who would kill himself, and the guy who would quit, would you have done these things when MFC was introduced if you'd been told to use it ?
Christian
I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff.
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Christian Graus wrote:
would you have done these things when MFC was introduced if you'd been told to use it ?
There is a huge difference between introduction of MFC and .NET.
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George wrote:
There is a huge difference between introduction of MFC and .NET.
There are differences, but in the end I believe people who say they would kill themselves or quit rather than use it are motivated by the same things in both cases.
Christian
I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I believe people who say they would kill themselves or quit rather than use it are motivated by the same things in both cases.
I think the guy who said he would kill himself is just kidding. The "I'd quit" is the same as "I'd stick with C++ (and not use Managed extensions)" or "I don't see the future in .NET". Managed Extensions suck bad and many people, including me, have no interest to use a broken version of C++ and would rather quit to find a place where the real C++ is used.
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George wrote:
have no interest to use a broken version of C++
So why do you say MC++ is broken?
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
George wrote:
have no interest to use a broken version of C++
So why do you say MC++ is broken?
Ask him Chris, ask him.
I once asked him and he gave me a 1000 arguments.
Since most of them revolved around C++ standards I could not counter-argue. But you can I guess 
My own C++ is worse than MC++, so I won't be worse off in any case. I think MC++ is the best thing about .NET [for me anyways]
__gc Nish
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to ![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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Chris Maunder wrote:
So why do you say MC++ is broken?
You must be a new here? 
Anyway, as Nish has already pointed out it's been discussed in great details numerous times before, just search the archives...
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I've seen you discuss ad neaseum about how you dislike Managed C++, you think C# is a waste of time, and that C++ is better than C# and VB because you say it can do whatever C# or VB can (therefor there is no point in C# or VB). I also vageuly remember you discussing Visual C++'s deficiencies when it comes to standards compliance - but none of this explains why you think Managed Extensions for VC++ are broken.
So how about a quick one-liner for those of us who missed the argument elsewhere
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
why you think Managed Extensions for VC++ are broken
If MC++ is supposed to be C++ it is severly broken. Otherwise if it is supposed to be MC++ then by the reflexive property it is MC++, this it is itself(since it is still 1.0)
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huh?
Managed extensions are extensions to C++.
CantLogInNow wrote:
Otherwise if it is supposed to be MC++ then by the reflexive property it is MC++, this it is itself(since it is still 1.0)
You've lost me here. What are you saying?
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote:
So how about a quick one-liner for those of us who missed the argument elsewhere
You want a one-liner, huh? OK, here it comes:
Managed_Extensions_for_Visual_cplusplus != _cplusplus
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One word: portability.
Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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George wrote:
I think the guy who said he would kill himself is just kidding.
Obviously, but while I'm sure he wouldn't KILL himself, it's obviously a statement designed to show a depth of feeling on the topic.
George wrote:
Managed Extensions suck bad and many people, including me, have no interest to use a broken version of C++ and would rather quit to find a place where the real C++ is used.
I doubt I would want to use MC++, it seems likely to me that C# would be a better choice for .NET development. I *love* C++, but that doesn't mean I can't learn something new, and while I am cynical about parts of .NET, I doubt M$ are so stupid as to release a major product that is useless, BOB notwithstanding. Have you bought any books on C# ? Have you used it at all ? If not, then your stataments have more to do with technofear than any basis in fact. I may well decide that C# sucks, but I will learn it first, and then decide. I may well decide that .NET is useless for me, but I'll decide based on fact, not hearsay, and ultimately that means trying it for myself.
Christian
I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Have you bought any books on C# ?
To help to make money to all that people that write useless books about the product that was not even released yet (and it's not even released as of today)? No, thanks, I'll wait and see...
Christian Graus wrote:
Have you used it at all ? If not, then your stataments have more to do with technofear than any basis in fact.
I read the spec and tried the Beta 1 - I found that C# is not my cup of tea. I don't have to step into the sh*t to know it stinks - I know that from the previous experience. It's not a fear - it's causion and experience....
Christian Graus wrote:
I may well decide that C# sucks, but I will learn it first, and then decide. I may well decide that .NET is useless for me, but I'll decide based on fact, not hearsay, and ultimately that means trying it for myself.
Why waste time to learn yet another temporary technology? By the time it picks up it may well be replaced by something else. Why to bother to live in yet another buble just to wake up one day and see the buble is burst and gone?
Christian Graus wrote:
I doubt M$ are so stupid as to release a major product that is useless
It seems as the whole .NET was being invented when the dot-com was on the top, now it's all gone and MS is trying to re-animate the idea. Good luck.
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George wrote:
useless books about the product that was not even released yet
As of now there are a number of books based on beta 2 that promise an update for free for any changes in the release version. If you think they are going to be so different, you're left completely unable to comment.
George wrote:
Why waste time to learn yet another temporary technology? By the time it picks up it may well be replaced by something else. Why to bother to live in yet another buble just to wake up one day and see the buble is burst and gone?
So you don't use COM either ? Or MFC ( a technology whose days are now most certainly numbered ) ? How long did it take you to go from C to C++ ?
George wrote:
It seems as the whole .NET was being invented when the dot-com was on the top, now it's all gone and MS is trying to re-animate the idea. Good luck.
If it works out as they hope or not, I have no doubt that C# will become the most supported language to write Windows apps.
Christian
I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff.
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Christian Graus wrote:
If it works out as they hope or not, I have no doubt that C# will become the most supported language to write Windows apps.
I have no doubt that C# is going to play a major role in Windows apps, in addition to Web apps as that's what it was intended to do in the first place, but that's not enough yet. C# doesn't have momentum yet, only time will tell if it'll prevail on the Windows domain.
I guess everybody's fear is that if they pick up C# for their projects that C# won't make it in the end, and they have to revert back to C++ or whatever they used. We must admit that C# was designed from the ground up to revolve around the .NET framework, i.e. without .NET it can't survive. The power of C# comes from .NET itself, not from the language design or features. If .NET ever goes down the toilet, so will C#.
Let's face it, languages come and languages go, but C and C++ remain. Libraries and frameworks come and go, but C++ remain. Now I may sound biased a little bit, but that's the truth, at least statistically it is true.
Just my 2 cents.
- Khaled
In C we could create our own bugs. Now with C++ we can inherit them.
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Khaled Hammouda wrote:
Let's face it, languages come and languages go, but C and C++ remain. Libraries and frameworks come and go, but C++ remain. Now I may sound biased a little bit, but that's the truth, at least statistically it is true.
Hell, yes. Anyone who DUMPS C++ is an ignorant fool. Anyone who ignores C# is a close second, because M$ have shown they can make even bad ideas stick, just by continually throwing them at us, and changing them until people accept them ( VB anyone ? ). I've never been a C# fanatic, although as I read about it I'm becoming more inclined to like it, but there is a difference between saying you're sceptical ( as I have done in the past ) and taking the time to have a look before pronouncing judgement, and just outright hating something on the basis that it's not the way you're used to doing things.
Christian
I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Hell, yes. Anyone who DUMPS C++ is an ignorant fool.
Yep.
Christian Graus wrote:
Anyone who ignores C# is a close second, because M$ have shown they can make even bad ideas stick, just by continually throwing them at us, and changing them until people accept them ( VB anyone ? ).
"People" can do whatever, I don't have to accept bad ideas just because they "stick".
VB? No thanks. When I hear about VB I simply don't take a job, I get the one that doesn't involve VB.
Christian Graus wrote:
I've never been a C# fanatic
You are one now, or so it seems.
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George wrote:
"People" can do whatever, I don't have to accept bad ideas just because they "stick".
You're totally correct. If support for C++ under windows dries up, you can always go program for Linux.
George wrote:
Christian Graus wrote:
I've never been a C# fanatic
You are one now, or so it seems.
I'm starting to like the sound of it, as a compliment to C++. I suspect that through support from M$ it will quickly become the best viable choice for Windows development.
Christian
I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff.
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Christian Graus wrote:
If support for C++ under windows dries up, you can always go program for Linux.
If support for C++ under windows dries up the windows itself will be in serious troubles. People use windows not because of it's user-friendlines or statbility or security (they would be using Linux otherwise) but because of the availability of a lot of good software. If C++ will not be supported many good (C++) programmers will write for some other platform (maybe Linux), and Windows will loose it's big advantage. A lot of software will not be supported and will not work under newest versions of Windows (as it happens now). MS will not be able to write all the software themself and so people may revise their OS installations.
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