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Cape Town Developer wrote: Wisdom is often meant as the ability and desire to make choices that can gain approval in a long-term examination by many people.
Hadn't seen this before...Good saying
Cape Town Developer wrote: Mike that is so true !
Thanks,
Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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Mike Hankey wrote: few people can apply it with a high level of skill
I have found out recently that few painters can apply paint as well as I do. Long story short we ended up firing 3 painters because their work (on two bathrooms) looked like that this was the first thing they ever painted. All the edges were horrible (no where near straight), they obviously did no prep work at all. I really can not believe they would assume that was acceptable for a nice house.
Last modified: 21mins after originally posted --
John
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John,
John M. Drescher wrote: I have found out recently that few painters can apply paint as well as I do
Over the years I've convinced my customers (by demonstration) that the above is true. In particular I did a little carpentry work for a customer, who became a good friend. It took him and a helper 1 wk. to prime the inside of a 1200 sq. ft. house and did an OK job. He fired his helper and hired me to do the job but was reluctant to pay me regular price. I told him if he didn't like the job I did after I was finished he didn't owe me anything. I had the job down in two days and he hasn't touched a paint brush since and gave me a tip!
You get what you pay for!
Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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When I started back in the early 70's, I was put in a class of 12 people for 6 weeks to learn IBM assembler - forwards, backwards, sideways and through wormhole gateways if necessary.
Now, it takes about 6-8 hours to teach a moderately intelligent 16 yr old how to program a simple application using the MS Express tools (student attention span allowing).
You tell me if I should feel proud at the amount of effort I expended to learn all I do know, or if we should feel proud at the incredible advances we have made in automating the work over the last 20 years?
Perhaps a better question is "are you proud that you could write a program to make a sinclair calculate your taxes, build the printer driver to print the results, and hack a parallel to USB plug using using nothing but bobby pins?" 
Honestly, I'm more proud that I can take a business idea all the way through to a decent design and implementation without spending $6,000 on "How to ..." books!
Nothing is impossible, we just don't know the way of it yet.
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I'm not proud of it, but I'm glad I chose it. I'd probably be more proud of it though if I wasn't stuck doing web dev currently.
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+1 on all counts.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Hi
It's the quality of the work that should make someone proud, in any profession.
"Silence will create respect and dignity; justice and fair play will bring more friends;
benevolence and charity will enhance prestige and position; courtesy will draw benevolence;
service of mankind will secure leadership and good words will overcome powerful enemies"
Ali (Peace be upon him)
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In fact usually I over-simplfy what I do.... "I am just a lowly software developer, I do a user interface or two."
and leave it at that. It isn't that I am not proud, I am glad I do what I do. I just don't think I need to brag about it. My cousin's a lawyer, she doesn't brag either. It just is.
It's not like it is a competition to see who did best in life. I certainly don't have a great record there, discounting career, so nothing really to brag about there either.
Computer programming is like pinball. The reward for doing it well, is getting to do it again. 
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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El Corazon wrote: Computer programming is like pinball. The reward for doing it well, is getting to do it again.
With your Intel C/C++ compiler that I don't have yet. 
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: With your Intel C/C++ compiler that I don't have yet.
It's just a compiler, Jeremy.  There are a lot of compilers. Many of the same features are in other compilers, Intel just makes it a hair faster in the final code.
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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El Corazon wrote: Intel just makes it a hair faster in the final code
Actually, I'm wondering. Any speed gains on AMDs too or is the performance boost specific to Intel processors?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Actually, I'm wondering. Any speed gains on AMDs too or is the performance boost specific to Intel processors?
Shhhhhhh!!!! don't tell Intel, but SSE is used by more than them.... 
You can't optimize for 3DNow for AMD, but any of the common instruction sets, you enable support for in the compiler and you can optimize the heck out of your binary for AMD or Intel. SSE2 is common enough now that you don't limit anyone, but at least SSE.
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I am proud of what I do but this is mostly because I am involved in cancer research. If I was developing software to stream porn out to 10 million customers I am not sure I would tell anyone...
John
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Developing integrated methods to deliver high availability, high bandwidth, interactive content to millions of concurrent users.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
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John M. Drescher wrote: If I was developing software to stream porn out to 10 million customers I am not sure I would tell anyone...
Erm....
Actually, it's quite fun seeing their shocked expressions. Especially in certain circles, like the newagey Waldorf community. You can be talking esotericism one moment and porn the next!
Marc
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But porn increases quality of life. 
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: But porn increases quality of life.
Maybe, but it can surely decrease quantity of life if abused. 
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And I try not to admit it either, because then people ask me if I can fix their computer.
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I hate having to listen to the story about so-and-so who does "exactly" what I do and is such a genius he can fix anything. When I meet a Mechanical Engineer I don't ask him to change the oil in my car or tell him about my nephew Bob who changes tires at Walmart.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: And I try not to admit it either, because then people ask me if I can fix their computer.
Oh man, you hit the nail right on the head. And I love those "my computer is acting wierd, do you think you could help me?" ARGH! I need a portable billing meter, a battery powered equivalent of what the have in taxicabs.
Marc
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: because then people ask me if I can fix their computer.
This is one of the most amazing concepts. I can't imagine doing that for any other career. But it is like this magical miracle capability. "oh wow, you understand computers!! can you fix mine I ruined because I did not??"
_________________________
Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau.
Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I expect most physicians and lawyers get asked such things.
One of our friends is a podiatrist; I look forward to asking him about my toe when next he visits.
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...or help them with a problem in Excel or Word, or take a look at why their system starts up and says "You have spyware on your system!! upgrade to ReplaceYourSpywareWithOurs Now", or help them with their Web searches, or...just about anything else under the sun that has to do with computers.
I do use one solution that at least keeps them at bay until I have time to help them or they get tired of waiting and nag someone else into doing it - I simply mention that ten years ago my time was getting billed at $190/hour by my employer, and that the last time I worked as a consultant I billed a minimum of $50/hour...not bragging so much as throwing up a wall. That still doesn't prevent my family from getting after me (for instance, tonight I have to take a look at my stepson's keyboard port, which I hope will reveal either a short or a broken lead that I can fix, as the new keyboard didn't work any better than the old keyboard  ).
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I'm happy to be doing something i enjoy. I'm happy to be making a living doing something i enjoy.
But proud?
I've tried and failed many times to explain to people in other professions what i do.
I've tried and failed many times to explain to my own family what i do.
I haven't yet tried to explain to my employers what i do, assuming they at least should know. I'm starting to re-think that assumption.
Pretty sure doctors and elephant herders don't have this problem. Lawyers probably do, but lawyers are pretty much just hack programmers without computers. But they can at least inspire grudging respect born of fear.
---- ...the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more...
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I was once VERY proud of my profession. But, after seeing many friends lose their ability to pay their mortgages because they were outsourced, I lost the love for the profession (even though I still did it).
Luckily, I stuck with it long enough to get a contract where I definitely made a difference. It was for a city service that helped children with special needs. Working on that project gave me back the pride I once had, and I am thankful to be a part of it.
I knew too many people with children that have special needs, and since I'm not a doctor, this was something I could do to truly help ease the children through the processing stage.
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