|
Dalek Dave wrote: is really a minor service of the site
Agree to that... but looks like left aside for now after so many major changes to site!
Can be included in a list and thought about...may be with a lower priority!
|
|
|
|
|
I disagree. The information exists and is available; its usefulness would be improved by making it searchable, listable, and sortable.
|
|
|
|
|
Sandeep Mewara wrote: Based on new reputation system and new Q&A forum + Tip/Trick forum, there should be more filter criteria's. Like, order by number of Q&A Answer's posted, Tip/Tricks posted, by different rep categories like - authority, organizer, etc!
I guess that will eventually come into CP!
However, its not high priority - this was the first time I actually when to the Who's who page and sorted by "number of messages".
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting but definitely low on our list. 
|
|
|
|
|
There is a junk answer in Quick Answers and for some reason I don't get delete link.
<a href="http://www.codeproject.com/answers/68761/Use-a-VS2005-lib-in-VS2003.aspx">http://www.codeproject.com/answers/68761/Use-a-VS2005-lib-in-VS2003.aspx</a>[<a href="http://www.codeproject.com/answers/68761/Use-a-VS2005-lib-in-VS2003.aspx" target="_blank" title="New Window">^</a>]
http://www.codeproject.com/answers/68761/Use-a-VS2005-lib-in-VS2003.aspx
-Saurabh
P.S. For some reason linky thing and other tags (Code block, inline code etc.)are not working for me.
I am using IE8 on WIndows7, anything I can do to fix it?
|
|
|
|
|
While I wonder why that answer can't be deleted (no edits, posted by a noob, 2 downvotes, no upvotes), you typically handle these types of scenarios by clicking the "Report" link at the bottom of the answer. Still, you may have come across a bug (I don't see why that answer can't be deleted).
Somebody else will have to respond to your question about HTML encoding... I imagine you have JavaScript turned off though.
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah I think its a bug thats why wanted to report it.
HTML encoding used to work fine but it stopped working since couple of days. Not sure if I changed something.
-Saurabh
|
|
|
|
|
Okay I figured it out. Somehow the "Use HTML in this post" was not checked. I never knew it existed till today
http://www.google.com/[^]
-Saurabh
|
|
|
|
|
Here is my personal opinion: the way voting works on CP really sucks. It discourages new authors and is a constant source of unhappiness.
I'm not going to get into a long philosophical discussion here. I just have one suggestion. Eliminate the 1-5 voting system, and replace it with a 0-1 system. If you like an article/post, vote 1. If you don't like it, don't vote. The total vote is additive, and can only increase, not decrease. Result: no more drive-by downvoting.
|
|
|
|
|
This removes the ability to filter out the real crud, unless we really push the "Report" button.
meh. Maybe that's not a bad thing.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
The Report button is your friend. I would just like to see the negativity stop.
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, so would I.
Digg et al. use the single thumbs up method and maybe it's time we stopped trying to optimise the way we let members say "I like this article.
I am positive there will be opposing voices, and I admit I personally like to be able to say, with a certain level of precision, how much or little I like an article, but it's worth investigating.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
Microsoft also uses this method: see here.
Chris Maunder wrote: I personally like to be able to say, with a certain level of precision, how much or little I like an article.
So do I. But in the last few years, the overwhelming influx of immature idiots has worn me down.
|
|
|
|
|
Hans Dietrich wrote: the overwhelming influx of immature idiots has worn me down
That would be my fault. I voted 5 for Dumpbin thinking it would move the article straight to the bin. 
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx
|
|
|
|
|
I meant to thank you for that. 
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry Hans, I have a different view on voting.
I like the 1-to-5 scale a lot. It allows readers to express their opinion, and even convey a little nuance. One could/should interpret the numbers as very bad, bad, neutral, good, and very good. Aggregating a lot of votes results in the community score for the article/message.
I'm definitely not in favor of any asymmetric scheme, like the one you propose. An article/message on a specialized topic would not get many readers and votes, and would probably score less than a mediocre article/message on a popular topic.
The univoter phenomenon isn't really worrying. It does not occur often, and it gets compensated by the community pretty soon. The worst effect it has IMO is a young article, when hit by an undeserved 1, immediately disappears from the "Latest Best Picks" on the home page.
The one thing that might be needed is stimulating all readers to vote on everything they read. The motto should be: if you care enough to read it, you should also care enough to vote (and when you do, please try to vote accurately). You, the reader, are part of the community, so let your opinion count, let it be included in the average. You should not vote on things you haven't read, or don't care about; when you care, you vote.
And finally, with a sufficient number of readers also casting votes, the univoters would be completely outnumbered and most of them might just abandon their silly game.
|
|
|
|
|
I respect your opinion a lot, Luc, but I have to tell you that lately every one of my articles has been down-voted for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the article itself.
I have gotten used to this and expect it. New authors don't understand it. All the other problems that CP has are trivial compared to the negativity generated by the voting system. Chris has tried bandaids and the result has been negligible.
The morons have won. I give up.
|
|
|
|
|
Hans, I was not aware of any particular situation. I can only imagine it is very unpleasant to get a hailstorm of ones. Obviously the last thing anyone (but the morons themselves) wants is good work to be downvoted.
I would assume CodeProject could detect which account(s), which IP address(es), get used to commit such silly acts when one or a few people are targeted.
In the past I once proposed a scheme where every account would have a voting budget, not with the intent to limit the number of votes, but to steer their distribution; so one would have to have the upvote/downvote ratio within certain limits. Example: 1-1-1 would be impossible without any intervening 4 or 5 votes, something like that. So the budget is one earns the right to vote 1 by voting 5 too, and vice versa. I know, that would not completely stop the morons, they could upvote each other and downvote everyone else.
We now have the reputation system, how about doing something budget-like for the low-rep accounts? and relax/lift the limitations based on rep, i.e. once serious commitment has been detected.
[ADDED]
One more idea:
why not limit the possible voting targets to articles/messages by authors that do not exceed the voter's reputation by some factor? So someone with rep 100 could vote everything up to say rep 1000, but nothing higher. So a moron and a well-intending newbie, could only down/upvote messages of people in their own league. This would need some fine-tuning, e.g. whoever asks a question might vote on all answers no matter what their reps say.
[/ADDED]
I would not mind (actually I already proposed it for articles) when all votes required a justification, not only the 1's and 2's. Maybe all it takes is requiring justification for every vote that causes the voter's distribution to completely tilt one way or the other. So person X, casting his third 1-vote on any particular day, would be forced to justify it; even when he enters nonsensical text, at least it leaves a trail for everyone to be seen.
I do hope we can get this solved without punishing or hindering the people who mean well, which includes the article authors first of all.
|
|
|
|
|
I know you want to help CP, which is why I'm responding. I think that 4 or 5 years ago, what you suggest might have worked. The problem is that CP has become successful, and that has attracted the morons. The only rational conclusion is that the situation is going to become worse. Imagine a hundred CSS's going through the site and randomly voting.
We can't expect Chris to prevent this from happening, and still have CP be the open site that it is. I know I would be giving up something, but I just can't stand the negativity that the voting system generates.
|
|
|
|
|
I still believe we could keep the morons in check; of course we can't expect the CP staff to guard everything, however the reputation system could be used as a defense and even be quite effective IMO. You did see what I added to my earlier message?
|
|
|
|
|
Luc Pattyn wrote: We now have the reputation system, how about doing something budget-like for the low-rep accounts? and relax/lift the limitations based on rep, i.e. once serious commitment has been detected.
An issue is that downvoters often create sock-puppet accounts, so getting around this is easy. I could then tighten up membership requirements but that then makes things difficult for the other 99% who are sensible.
As well as this we hit the issue of the legitimately helpful voter. We do have a system that looks at voting patterns and tries to find those voting malicously. However, many, many times I find malicious voters have actually cast a lot of upvotes, or alternatively I've found serial downvoters have downvoted articles and messages that legitimately should be downvoted. These guys actually need to be encouraged because they help everyone.
Complicating the system doesn't work. all it does is shift the burden to other members.
However, there is a complication that may work:
We store the Id of the voter for each vote. We could let members vote on articles but keep their vote as "pending" until that voter reaches maturity (say, Bronze or silver). As soon as that happens their votes suddenly count.
Issues are:
- There's no gratification for voting. Nothing valuable would happen for new members
- It's complicated and requires explaining
- it's a buren on the servers
- The majority of members are actually only casual members. Not enough reach Silver, say, for voting to be effective.
Any solution must encourage upvoting of good content. I am starting to think Hans has it right in that the simpler something is, the more likely it is to be understood and used, so the more votes would be garnered and the more effective the system would be.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
OK,
budget-voting is out, too brittle.
yes, voting should have immediate effect/gratification for the voter, best also for the votee
yes, whatever the scheme, it should be explained and made transparent.
I would go for delta-rep-limited voting: a voter can vote on everything, however he cannot cause the average to go down when his rep is less than one N-th (e.g. N=10) of the authors rep.
Examples:
- everyone can vote 5 everywhere
- everyone can vote 4 everywhere if the current average is 3.7 or 4
- rep 100 can vote 1 on rep 500
- rep 100 can not vote 3 on rep 1500 if average was 4.2
All the above get accounted for voter and votee exactly as it is today.
BTW: if you don't like 1/N, how about one color down (so it takes gold to hit on a platinum, etc).
That probably protects most of those that care most, however it allows any blank to hit a bronze.
In the short term, I suggest to force a message on every article vote (or every article vote less than 5, but that could stimulate fives, not my intention); what counts here is the visibility, not the message itself. If you don't like messages for fours, please consider adding threes to the current ones and two's; it sure isn't the case that you will loose many legitimate 3-votes, I'd say.
|
|
|
|
|
I'm going to need a UML diagram for that, Luc.
I understand your intent. However, it does not allow the majority of uses to undo a vote of 5 voted by a sock-puppet of an author. This will make it easier for bad articles to float to the top, degrading the perceived average quality of CodeProject articles.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry, I'm no good at UML diagrams. I'm still struggling with Venn diagrams. 
OK, your remark is valid, but fixable. Maybe like this:
a color cannot vote below the weighted average of all higher colors (i.e. your current
average, but excluding all votes from some colors); and author's vote gets demoted one color.
scenario 1: author is gold.
first vote is white 3, OK
next vote is white whatever, OK (average is now anywhere between 2 and 4)
next vote is bronze 4, OK (is higher color)
next vote is white 3, NO (below average)
scenario 2: author is gold.
first vote is author (gold) 5, OK (counts as silver 5)
next vote is bronze 4, NO <------
next vote is silver 3, OK (same color, average now 4)
next vote is white 3, NO
next vote is bronze 4, OK <------ (same vote as before, now made possible by silver 3 bringing down average)
yes, I'm aware you need to keep more data now. Keeping top achievers happy will cost you
(instead of one average, you would need one for each voter color, hence five)
|
|
|
|
|
What you need for articles (and yes I've never written one - blah, blah, blah, lounge lizard, trouble maker etc. ) is a "critique" system.
In such a system - and this might play quite well with the recently stolen introduced vanity reputation system - articles are put up for peer review. Those luminaries who have a decent technical reputation (or article rep > some value), rather than berks like me, get to approve content, suggest improvements or throw the same in the bin.
So far, so the same...
However, once an article is made public, users would not be able to vote that on that article - it's been peer approved, after all - but they would be able to offer a critique of it and offer a proposed "vote" on the content. These critiques themselves are the actual subject of votes and it would be the cumulative votes on the legitimate critique, positive or negative, that rates the article.
An example is due:
I write an article on the best "Hello, World!" application in Ass#.
Luminaries decide that it is awesome, and make it open to the public.
Berk #1 comes along and 'critiques' my hard work and 'critiques' with "adsfasd". His vote counts for nought until his critique is up-voted.
Marc Clifton comes along and gives me a 'critique'. He says he's done it all in MyXaml much better and gives me a down vote. Marc's 'critique' gets +5 affimtives.
Pete comes along and says my work isn't valueless and says my work is worth something. His 'critique' gets +1 vote.
Meanwhile Berk #1 has been down voted a number of times because "adsfasd" is worthless.
To calculate we only look at those critiques that got a positive register; -5 for Marc's appreciation and +1 for Pete's making my article worth (clearly 50 billion).
It gets rid of drive-by-voting and also puts an onus on those who do vote to do so properly, such as if someone does the "adsfgsyag" routine they lose, whereas people who offer legitimate critique are rewarded.
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
