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I'd like to discuss this with you, but frankly I'm just too disgusted right now.
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A member received points for downloading a file 2
The author of a downloadable file receives points when their file is downloaded 5
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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That is a step in the right direction. A passive 5 was and is just right, an active 2 is more than enough (by downloading nothing really gets "organized").
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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My point is that we haven't decided on any changes and hence have not changed anything, so I'm confused as to why Hans is so upset.
While on the topic of download points, Luc, you stated[^] "If in my view you give insufficient points for posting an article, I will no longer post articles.".
I spent a good deal of the weekend thinking about this statement. The only way I can take this is that you are saying that the only reason you post articles is not to share your knowledge and help others, but to get points. This is making me reevaluate the entire system.
Hans has, similarly, been up in arms. Not about whether or not we reward downloads, but about how much we reward. For 10 years we didn't even count downloads, now suddenly whether we reward 5 or 1 or 0.01 points a download is going to be the difference between top quality articles or permanently disenfranchised authors?
This whole discussion is surreal. I'm going to take my time thinking it through and am spending my (and my team's) time working on improving the article submission and display system, as well as working on Forums v2.0, as a higher priority than this.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Chris, here are some clarifications that might allow you to better understand things I have said before about the subject.
1.
As far as CP is concerned I could spend my time answering questions, participating in discussions, writing articles, or hanging around in the lounge, or any mix I choose. What I do in those respective subsystems depends on:
- how much I think it helps people out;
- how much I learn from doing it;
- what I prefer doing content-wise;
- how much I like the subsystems;
- and finally to what extent it gets rewarded.
2.
In Q&A versus forums, I don't like Q&A at all as you know, so I do forums only. No problem. Unless most questions go to Q&A and forums die. Or Q&A yields more rep points for the same effort, which it does to some extent, I already signaled that, and you mostly disagreed.
3.
In articles versus forums, I want to do both; however there are several reasons I'm not doing CP articles at the moment:
- once in a while I will compare the rep results, I know my typical articles yield 1000 points each over time; I feel I can earn more rep points in the forums spending the same amount of time. I do anywhere between 1000 and 2000 points a week, that would require me to write an article each week. So maybe my articles aren't good enough, or the points aren't well balanced.
- articles get edited, sooner or later, without explaining why things get changed, so the author, if he wants to know, has to compare versions to find out, then guess why the changes got applied.
- if articles are always moderated (I just don't know, you did say something that sounded like that), that is another dislike as it creates delays and uncertainties. I tend to quickly create something because there is a need, and refer to it right away. That is one reason I started doing articles on my site.
4.
I keep saying: a reward system always works to some extent, it shifts the action balance towards the reward balance; give 10 times more points to A than to B, while A and B take the same effort, well A will become popular and B will fade out. So if the net result would be the members don't do what you would like them to do, then you should suspect your reward system is wrong.
5.
And then I have some problems with debator points:
A) I have 100K authority and 50K debator; more than half of those debator points should have been authority points (upvotes on technical answers provided in forums), but became debator points due to the default message types you apply. I have started clicking "Answer" almost automatically now, but changing the message type on old messages is impracticable, and does not fix the problem either.
B) I understand and don't mind the existence of debator points, I object to them being added to everything else and the total points being shown as a global number which could be mistaken as a quality indication which it isn't; whoever hovers the forums and sees a popup may get the impression somebody is a technical expert where his real excellence may well be at telling jokes in the lounge.
PS: waw. FireFox 4 crashed on me while composing this. It restarted and everything was still there, in the edit box. Not sure I understand how that works, but I sure do appreciate it.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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Luc Pattyn wrote: FireFox 4 crashed on me [...]. Not sure I understand how that works
Buggy code 
Panic, Chaos, Destruction.
My work here is done.
or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often *students*, for heaven's sake. -- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
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I know the theory of a failure, I once took a crash course.
It is the full recovery that amazed me.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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You have gold Author level which means you can post your articles directly without moderation. You can also set the minimum authority level at which an article can be edited right up to the point of only allowing staff to edit, and then if you wish you can add a comment to your article saying "please don't touch".
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Thanks, I knew that and have used it, except something you wrote recently somewhere made me doubt the gold means no moderation rule.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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Frankly, I don't care whether I get 10 points, 1 point or no points. If I have something interesting to write and the time to finish writing it, I'll write it. The points aren't the motivating factor.
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Points are just icing on the cake for me. I spent 2 days this weekend writing an article because I know it will be useful to others, including my coworkers. Seeing the occassional upvote (or other actions that gain reputation points, such as downloads) is sort of like a periodic injection of warm and fuzzy. And annoying as they are, downvotes also serve a purpose... they serve as an excellent motivator to improve (though I'm sure you haven't gotten a downvote in like 800 years).
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Oh I don't know, HWSNBN used one of his sockpuppet accounts to target a couple of my articles.
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I was reading the text on one line, and then read the points from another line.
My apologies.
![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
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Check again, Hans. The author still gets his 5 points, it is the downloader who is now receiving fewer points. And that is quite right.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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It's enough to double Maunder's rep points. Personally I think 2 points is still too high, but it's much less disruptive than 5 would have been once the logs were parsed. It's still probably going to be the primary source of rep for author points even after factoring in the weighting on votes. I don't like this since it really says downloadless articles are a second class product.
Courtesy of Luc[^] we have some actual numbers on download/bookmark totals for the authors at the top of the CP vanity charts.
member total total total articles
votes downloads bookmarks count
Sacha 9,023 37K 17.0K 175
Marc 4,144 64K 11.2K 137
Nish 6,472 156K 7.8K 133
JSOP 1,944 10K 2.5K 84
#1 5,540 210K 7.0K 104
.dan.g 2,666 168K 4.0K 16
CG 1,632 24K 2.9K 37
3x12=36
2x12=24
1x12=12
0x12=18
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In my opinion a Technical Blog is an unique publication and is pursued by the following discussion.
An update should not be listed on the homepage.
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Dont get Chris started again......i think he's ready to pop
See here[^]
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Take a look at this message[^] - I'd appreciate comments.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Thanks Chris,
I'm not talking to remove the technical blogs, just show the 'new' blogs on the homepage.
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I don't think it makes sense to show updates on articles and tips but not blogs.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Assuming you entered it through the Article Publication Wizard (as opposed to mailing it to CP staff), there is a little checkbox "Make publicly available" or something such, which you need to check when done, otherwise nobody is going to see it at all; and then the article will have to go through moderation, where only reputed authors see it and judge it, and decide on general publication. But first, check the checkbox!
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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Its status is currently "composing". You have to edit the article and toggle the appropriate checkbox (sorry, don't know what its label is, but it's on the submission wizard page where you select the tags and edit the content).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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