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ProffK wrote:
You do understand business in addition to C++??
Certainly I do.
However no time limit should ever be set on true R&D, which often brings the highest return. In any situation you should always consider the medium term as well as the short term.
"Strategic management is not a box of tricks or a bundle of techniques. It is analytical thinking and commitment of resources to action" quoted from Peter Drucker.
The moment your development business starts creating quick fixes, is the moment that you will lose your classic edge as an innovator of the products.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
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on I realise that most developers understand the business side of this, I was just making a wise crack.
A difference that comes into play with what you have said, is where your business is not a development business. In this area, 'quick', but not dirty, VB development supports another core business, which always comes before software innovation.
I developed a VB system for a mortgage origination platform, and if I had spent time on R&D, they would not be in business.
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Yes, for small to tiny apps and fast development I can see a use for VB.
But when you have a product that you want to have at the center of your business, and will probably be upgrading and extending every six months I really believe VB is unlikely to be the candidate environment for this.
Although I must admit I have never really developed a major project in VB so I can't talk from experience.
ProffK wrote:
but not dirty, VB development supports another core business,
I understand what you are saying and agree.
However one of the biggest problems I see for development teams is when the management expect every answer to be created within in hours when the problems should have been in the original spec. There is a continuing conflict between management and development, unfortunately when the management see something being done fast with a tool like VB they then expect major projects to be completed in the same manner. Possibly this additionaly sours my thoughts towards VB.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
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C programmers have been slagging VB since it started! Nothing changes. VB is easier to code, implement and read.
At the end of day, when talking about code under .Net it really does make absolutely no difference whether you're using VB or C#. I've converted many of the C# projects on here to VB.Net with no problems.
If, like me, you've got 10 years of VB stick with and try to pick up C# as you go along. Theres no time to switch languages if your working all day, every day.
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Yeah, try reusing VB code...
Perhaps VB.NET is better.. heck, it is a completely different language than previous VB versions.
You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
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LeeDaviesVBSource wrote:
VB is easier to code, implement and read.
ROFLMOA! typical its easy for develop the odd data entry program, developing real GUI/Critical applications no, no, no. I've seen so many VB programs trying to develop around 3rd party controls, it actually make me sick seeing VB 
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LeeDaviesVBSource wrote:
VB is easier to code, implement and read
In the hands of a real developer VB can be a powerful tool. VB earnt its reputation as bad because it allowed any old hack to write applications. Programming is something that anybody can do, however it takes a certain kind of person to do it well.
Michael
The avalanche has started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote.
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Paul Farry wrote:
If the purpose is to knock something together in 30minutes, I'll grab VB,
For me, if the first requirement I'm told is the time limit, I tell them to get stuffed. The time constraint should be the absolute last requirement that a developer is given.
Chris Meech
"what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002.
"AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! Those leaks are driving me crazy! How does one finds a memory leak in a garbage collected environment ??! Daniel Turini Nov. 2, 2002.
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Chris Meech wrote:
The time constraint should be the absolute last requirement that a developer is given.
Yeah, if you want to do proper R&D the questions how much does it cost, and how long will it take, are irrelevant.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
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When I said 30 minutes... I meant something trivial (data entry screen for an operator).... Not that someone is imposing a 30 minutes deadline on me.
Of course if someone else is setting my deadlines, I push back on them and give them a more accurate assessment.
Even if that assessment is still 30minutes, I'll return to my office, have a think about the requirement and then say... Hmmm I think we'll be fine for this project in xx Time + 10%... Errors do occur.
This also portrays to project managers that you don't just shoot from the hip regarding projects and timeframes. In the longer term this approach has served me well, because when I tell a project manager the time, they adjust their schedule rather than mine....
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What is below average? If its a VB user then that explains the results thus far. 
Todd Smith
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At least VB programmers aren't up their owm A#@ES!
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That's because they haven't found it. 
--
Ignorant people upsets me.
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LeeDaviesVBSource wrote:
VB programmers
VB "programmers"? Hahahahahahahahahaha...
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Where's the Godlike option?
I work with a bunch of straight out of university VB programmers and one FoxPro programmer who hasn't learnt a new language or technology in 6 years.
I always thought I was an average programmer until I met these guys 
Michael
The avalanche has started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote.
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LOL I feel the same way. Where is the god like option? Most of the people out of universties don't know much at all except visual basic. I for one am not even out of highschool and I am way exceeding them. I already have tons of C/C++, weblanguages, and other type of expereince. Including I can make full 3d games in directx by myself. That is what makes me feel even more sad  ..
- LiquidKnight
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Maybe you are very good in what you do. But try writing a Compiler without any knowledge of Computer Theory ( FA's, Regular Expressions, etc...)
Never under - estimate what you can learn in school.
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I have wrote a compiler.. What more do you want me to make?
- LiquidKnight
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What kind of compiler? What sort of features do you support? Why dont you post it on CodeProject, I would be interested in seeing it as and article.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
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It don't support many features at all its just a small compiler I made. It is not a "godly" all and mighty compiler. I don't post much on code project at all because I feel my code is being used without me being able to get any credit for it.
- LiquidKnight
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What kind of credit are you looking for?
I think that if you write a good solid piece of code that people can reuse and learn from you will plenty of credit in the comments section of your article.
Besides I posted a full version of tetris here on CP, and I saw links to it in the news for other game programming sites. That made me feel really good.
I dont expect much for the code I give away here on CP, it is basically for people to learn from. The most that I expect is a "thanks" or a "good job".
You should reconsider posting it, I think a lot of people would like to see how a compiler works 
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
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What is suppose to be expected from teachers who hasn't never sold a line of its own code?
Thats the regular case I think...
Just three words: void main(void)
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Michael P Butler wrote:
I work with a bunch of straight out of university VB programmers and one FoxPro programmer who hasn't learnt a new language or technology in 6 years.
Be thankful you are with a bunch of guys who are current. Before I changed groups (2 years) only 2 of us (out of 20) had migrated beyond Fortran. To do the "new gui stuff" they used "D".
"I will find a new sig someday."
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Where's the Godlike option?
agreed.
Some time compare your self to a Uni Professor and you might feel that Monothesism is all about you.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
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