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Wow - I've never had that happen. I generally have moved to jobs that would take me tomorrow if they could, that's about the only useful 'out' I can see.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Just to be clear...
Excluding an actual contract, in the US, most employment is "at will".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment[^]
Which means, excluding certain protected conditions, you can quit when you want and they can fire you when they want.
The Jiving Anchovie wrote: How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
Been quite some time since I wouldn't have appreciated the extra time off. But if you expect your company to behave badly towards you then quit just before you start your next job.
Other than that giving notice is considered a courtesy. If it makes you feel better giving you severance pay if they lay you off is a courtesy on their part as well. So if they are not willing to guarantee the latter no reason to feel bad if you don't do the former.
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Sounds like a lousy job.
So often there is antagonism and emnity.
But when I lost a job with an engineering company due to the downturn in 2009, they paid me five months salary and still sent me home the same day.
It was in Weymouth.
I spent the next few months in seaside pubs eating lunches, drinking bitter and doing telephone interviews.
Thing is, they were contracted to give me 3 months anyway, plus redundancy, plus they awarded a 'cooperation bonus' when I didn't complain.
If you have no contract stating two weeks notice, then put it down to experience. And ask up-front next time.
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That's an unusual and unpleasant parting. In the cases I've seen, a company will tell an employee who's given his two-week notice to "get out today" only if:
- There's bad blood between management and the employee, or:
- Management fears some sort of wrongdoing, whether the departing employee is motivated by profit or by vindictiveness.
Defense contractors will sometimes decree "get out today" for security reasons, but in such cases they usually pay the employee the two weeks' salary he would have earned.
If none of the above applies, then it's likely to be pique on the part of some higher-up -- basically "hurt feelings" over the employee's decision to move on. Managers are human and can be as petty as anyone else.
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
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Fran Porretto wrote: Defense contractors will sometimes decree "get out today" for security reasons, but in such cases they usually pay the employee the two weeks' salary he would have earned.
Even there it depends on the company. At my current (defense contractor) employer I've had several co-workers work a multi-month transition period between when they gave their notice and worked their last day. They either worked until the wrapup of their current projects, or part time (burning down paid leave instead of taking it as a big final payout check) while gradually handing off the ongoing tasks they were working on.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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They can ask you not to come in, but they're still contractually and legally (there are minimum notice periods enforced in law for employment contracts) obliged to pay you for that time unless you explicitly agree to early termination. That's what 'gardening leave' is all about. The only time this isn't true is if you get fired for breach of contract.
You should have taken them to court, it would have been an open and shut case and it sounds like you didn't have many bridges left to burn anyway.
Edit: assuming you have a contract, or live in a country where full time jobs have a level of minimum protection. But you're doing professional office based work, surely you have an employment contract ...
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A lot depends on your local labor laws. However… I’d ignore all that & protect yourself the same way you protect yourself from getting hit while driving. You can’t! We live in a world where the ability to hurt others far outstrips the ability to protect ourselves, or be protected. Basically: you can’t stop somebody else from being a jerk.
However all isn’t lost. This problem has already been solved by smart business practices, namely savings. Get enough cash in the bank to pay one month’s worth of bills, then two, then six, etc… You’ll sleep much better at night knowing you/your family’s will be ok if you lose your job (for any reason), get sick, get put in jail, or get kidnapped by aliens.
- great coders make code look easy
- When humans are doing things computers could be doing instead, the computers get together late at night and laugh at us. - ¿Neal Ford?
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As someone else pointed out, if you are in the U.S. and you've given your two week notice, with some kind of "my last day will be ...", and then they let you go early, they are firing you, i.e. terminating you involuntarily. Thus, you rate unemployment.
It might be hard to get, especially if you're scheduled to start work, and they will likely appeal, which will draw the process out futher, but you rate it.
Currently reading: "The Prince", by Nicolo Machiavelli
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In a right to work state there is nothing you can do to guarantee that you will be paid for your two weeks notice unless the state you live in has a law requiring payment.
I was once in a situation similar to yours. I gave my two week notice, finished up my current project two days later, and the next day I was told to leave and I was only paid for the two days I worked after giving my notice.
Some companies have a policy of walking people to the door the day they give notice, but will still pay people the two weeks notice. The theory behind this is once you decide to leave, you may no longer have the company's best interest in your actions, so they minimize their potential losses by walking you out the door. This ignores the fact that if someone wants to take company secrets or customer lists, they will generally take them before they give notice.
-- modified 15-Jan-14 10:46am.
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This is VERY typical in my experience.
Regardless, you SHOULD have been paid for the 2 weeks. No questions asked in my book. My basic rule is that you never do the wrong thing to someone who did the right thing.
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Most IT positions are let go as they turn in notice, but I have (rarely) seen an employee kept on for the full notice period due to staffing shortages.
If you work in an "at-will" state, there's nothing you can do about being let go early after giving notice except file for unemployment. However, let your current employer know your intentions up front. If you plan on working for the full two weeks, then let them know that you won't start at the new company and intend to either work or collect unemployment for the notice period. Most companies don't want to take the hit on their unemployment insurance and will opt to keep you on at that point or pay you severance.
Also, everyone else is correct that the new employer probably needs someone sooner rather than later and will let you start early. (Training with the outgoing person is usually a good thing.)
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that sucks. Been there. AS someone else has already mentioned this bridge goes two ways. There are websites where you can rate employers. I highly suggest you do so. And tell all your buddies about how you were treated as you were walked out the door.
I had this same experience. I had a long discussion with the worthless(aren't they all) HR person. She told me they left it up to the manager and let them decide. I even talked to a lawyer. Long story short. I had a case. But I would only have been able to collect 5 days of pay and it would have taken 6+ months. Lawyers advice was what I gave you. Post it online as a review of the company and talk to all the other Devs in you can. Word got around about that manager and he is no longer with that company(not sure that was the reason but it didn't hurt).
Most places in the US will pay you for the notice time. Whether you work or they want you to work it or not. Usually they have it stated in their HR policies. Go check.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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Check your PTO balance, and then check your dept of labor on PTO.
If you still have PTO and if the contract doesn't say that PTO isn't prorated, then it might be the case where ( NYC case) the company has to pay your remaining PTO balance.
When I left, they told me to get out asap I sent my letter, and since I had 2 weeks of PTO. I sent them another notice, that I'm going away on my PTO for 2 weeks and then leave with the following link:
http://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/faq.shtm#11
I got PTO with no argument.
You can also collect unemployment for those 2 weeks if worst comes to worst.
That's why the feds deduct worker's comp from your paycheck, and from what I recall, it doesn't affect your social security account, since the unemployment works on an insurance basis
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I had a similar thing. I live in Nevada, which is a right-to-work state (which I translate as you have no right to work), where they can fire you without notice or giving cause.
In my case I had a new job lined up just after I was taking some vacation. Our Employee Handbook (the employment contract someone mentioned) stated three things:
1) They want at least 2 weeks notice if you are leaving voluntarily.
2) They may ask you to leave prior to your requested last day after giving notice.
3) Any accumulated vacation will not necessarily be paid to you upon voluntary termination.
So while my new job wanted me to start at the beginning of August, I had already planned to take the vacation (a wedding cruise) months in advance for the last week of July. So I didn't give notice prior to the vacation, because I figured they might request that I leave at that point. Instead I waited until my first day back after the cruise.
So I gave notice, brought a project and department manager up to speed on the Selenium project I had been doing for them. My manager had called a group meeting late that morning letting the group know I had given notice and all indications were that I would spend the next two weeks getting my customer support cases and the Selenium project transferred over.
However, I got a call to go to a conference room at 4:30PM and they basically gave me my walking papers. My manager went back to my desk to get my stuff from it and bring it to me.
Now other people at the company had given notice and were there for at least the two weeks, so we all knew about it in advance. The person that trained me for the support work when I started was one of them. However, I think I was let go more quickly because I was doing development work and they didn't want any security issues from me putting some type of malware into the code. That was the first time our group had ever done coding, so in my case I think it was a security issue.
I think any developer might have to expect that, but I objected to them asking for 2 weeks notice yet not paying you accumulated vacation time or the remainder of the two weeks if they let you go sooner. They were a lousy company as far as how they dealt with their employees and that is just one such example.
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If you're in a right-to-work state, you really can't do anything. Giving 2-weeks notice is a professional courtesy but your employer is under absolutely no legal compulsion to honor the 2-week notice. OTOH, neither are you: you can just walk out too, without any kind of negative effect.
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In most of the Western world there are minimum "notice" periods outside of the probationary period. So if you've been with an employer 3+ months (probation), you basically "owe each other" 2+ weeks of notice.
In Canada, this is generally two weeks. So the company can let you go for any reason with two weeks of pay. If they want to give you less than two weeks, they must have a legal reason (theft, abandonment, etc.) My experience with the UK had this number at a 4+ weeks.
In the United States, many states are "at-will" employers which means they can let you go for any time for any reason. You can likewise leave for any time, any reason.
The way to prevent this is to negotiate a severance contract. Typically this involves you promising to give them a specific amount of notice prior to your departure and them agreeing to provide you a similar pay and notice.
The time to get this straightened out, is when you start the job, not when you leave it.
On a separate note.
While your employer behaved in a "legal" fashion, this is generally considered "poor" behaviour. Congratulations on getting out.
To help others from suffering similar fates, I strongly recommend leaving this information on a site like GlassDoor.com. This is the exact type of information that prospective job candidates need to hear.
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First, consider contacting the new position and tell them that the old company released you and you can start sooner. Maybe they will bring you on early. Can't hurt to ask.
Beyond that, your rights will vary by state. Most (maybe all) states have an employment commission that can tell you your rights. At a minimum you should be able to collect unemployment benefits. (Though it will not be much and you would only see a week of it.) All the same, this is an easy way to stick it back to them in a way that isn't in someones face and could backfire.
Finally, make a note and don't work for the company again if you possibly can avoid it while telling all your friends what they did (off the internet). I would be slow to call them out simply because such things could come back around to haunt you.
Most companies will either let you work the two weeks, or pay you and send you on your way. If they don't then they are legally obligated to pay you all money owed within 24 hours. If they fail to do so, again call the employment commission and see what action you can take.
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It's rare for an employer to fire a person simply because they gave notice. The only exception I can think of is if there was some type of security concern. It sounds like your boss just wanted you gone (for whatever reason). That being said, depending on where you are, you would probably qualify for unemployment benefits because that does not sound like legitimate grounds for termination.
I've hired and managed programmers and I usually ask programmers to give 30 days notice if they are leaving and it typically takes more like 60-90 days to replace a programmer if you count the time needed to advertise, interview and then allow them to give notice and then to get them up to speed.
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I would suggest you inform your new employer that you may be able to start earlier and see if they can accommodate you. My experience is that when an employer decides to hire you they would like you to start as soon as possible so I would think they would accommodate you if you can start early.
I live and work in Texas which is a "Right to Work" state. What this means is I can quit at any time without notice and they can fire me at any time without notice. You should review the employment laws where you work to see what your options are.
I agree with other replies that it's customary to give two weeks notice to maintain good will with your former employer. But if you're in a bad situation you may want to just get out. Two weeks notice may not be enough good will to get you labeled as "rehireable". If it's one incident it will probably not affect your ability to get hired.
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Whenever I've made a jump I discuss this possibility with my next employer. "It they cut me when I give notice, how soon can I start with you?" If my new employer isn't ready for me to start, then I take the time off and relax. Mostly it's about planning ahead.
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"Customary" died a long time ago. The requirements of your position are spelled out in your Employee Manual, which in the states is treated as your employment contract, unless otherwise explicitly specified. Left coast states don't have a requirement to give notice, either by employer or employee, before terminating employment. Some companies stipulate notice.
The bottom line is that employment is a reciprocal arrangement. You've had the experience of being told to "get out", which defines nicely your reciprocal responsibility for notice, loyalty, etc. The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) has no requirements that a company must give notice to an employee prior to a termination or lay-off. Check your state department of labor for specific state requirements.
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My accountant has advised me to always have a rainy day fund for just such an occurence.I've been a consultant for 40 years now and hearing this is nothing new to my ears.
Having a monetary cushion albeit a small one does give one comfort and confidence in that situation. You must adjust your own budget not to spend every last dime each paycheck.
Only then will you begin to manage your life better...
Good luck I know you will will find something better.
It always works out that way...or er almost always anyhow!
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I have always somewhat respected and admired the cleverness and resourcefullness of my cousin Bob.
Once we had the misfortune to be in a bank when it was being held up. The robbers demanded that we all empty our pockets and hand over our cash and jewelry. Bob turned to me and said "uh by the way, here's that $20 that I owe you."
Never moon a werewolf.
- Harvey
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... but the ski patrol pulled me out.
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