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Thanks 
(yes|no|maybe)*
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"When words aren't enough...Say It With Bacon 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Didn't know it was so scientific?
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever!
Rich Tennant 5th Wave
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Dear Frinds,
Wish you Happy Holi .........................
From
H.S.Maurya
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Leslie Nielsen[^] sent them a while ago...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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[Update: PA has since pulled their version after I escalated the conflict.  ]
I know that most of you are not lawyers (me included) but I'm hoping that you have related experience that can at least offer me support.
I am the author of ToDoList[^] here on CP, which is licensed using the Eclipse Public License 1.0.
At some point (not sure when) I discovered that my software was being distributed by PortableApps[^], and I learnt this because I started getting support requests that appeared to be caused by PA wrapping my software in their own and making assumptions about its behaviour that were plain wrong.
FWIW, ToDoList was written from the ground up as a portable app, so PA offers no value whatsover.
Now we get to the good bit:
A while ago I decided that the support calls were more than I wanted so I asked PA to take my software off their site. They said no, their wrapper couldn't be a problem, blah, blah, blah
Then yesterday I received an email from a PA user saying that they update the software and lost all their data. So I decided that since my reputation was starting to suffer, I would demand they removed the software.
What I got back was this:
"If you do not wish us to repackage and do not wish to work with us or allow us to continue to use the name, we will release a fork under a new name with your branding and support links removed as I indicated earlier. The package is branded as TDLister Portable (see attached) and will be a fork of your project. We will be utilizing your code under the Eclipse license as you have made it available. We will not be adding any new features or functionality, simply replacing the branding to avoid any confusion of where a user needs to go to get support." What are my options?
ps. I have contacted Eclipse[^] for advice and am awaiting a response.
pps. I am *&$@#*%@ angry.
modified 16-Mar-14 19:38pm.
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Well, since you chose to release the code at all, I don't think you can do much. I'd take their proposal to remove your name and branding and let them deal with the problems themselves...
I understand your feelings, but I don't think that there's much more to do. Maybe to pull the code and software entirely from the market and release it as a closed solution?
Or leave the version that is out as is and release any new releases as closed code.
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
-----
The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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Thx Johnny, he's since pulled his version after I escalated the conflict.
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I'm not a lawyer either, but a quick read of the Eclipse license (and sever cups of coffee - legalese turns my brain to mush) says that they can't do that:
A Contributor may choose to distribute the Program in object code form under its own license agreement, provided that:
a) it complies with the terms and conditions of this Agreement; and
...
iv) states that source code for the Program is available from such Contributor, and informs licensees how to obtain it in a reasonable manner on or through a medium customarily used for software exchange.
...
Contributors may not remove or alter any copyright notices contained within the Program.
Removing your branding (i.e. copyright notices) and support links would seem to be a clear violation of the license terms.
But...whenever lawyers get involved, the only people I've noticed who actually win are...the lawyers.
I think you have to decide how much effort you are prepared to put into defending this, in terms of time, cost, and effort - it's rarely trivial!
BTW: Cheers for ToDoList - good piece of software, I use it (in binary form, downloaded from your article here) 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Thx OG, he's since pulled his version after I escalated the conflict.
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To begin congratulations for what is a very successful piece of software. Nearly 19 million views and 300k downloads is amazing.
The idea that a very useful piece of software can be wrapped by a third party who then distributes it taking a credit for it's utility while directing any support elsewhere seems quite unfair. If that support also includes dealing with problems of their creation then that's bad.
I'd be very miffed if it were me. On reading the Eclipse agreement however it appears to be an unforseen if predictable situation. You granting the license and the form in which the recipient must use it is a classic deadlock.
It seems as a party to the agreement you cannot ask them to remove your contribution nor can they "fork" and create a branch removing copyright notices. Actually if they did this they would be in breach of the agreement which it seems in 7.3 would result in the termination of their rights.
It seems up to you and Eclipse at this point. I really hope you find a satisfactory solution.
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
modified 15-Mar-14 9:26am.
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Thx for your support, he's since pulled his version after I escalated the conflict.
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Dan, I understand your frustration.
As I understand it, the Eclipse license grants others "a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free copyright license to reproduce ... in object code form.". To me, this implies someone can package the compiled version of your app and do what they will with it - i.e. give it away, sell it, or include it as a value-add to something else they're selling. What nobody can do is alter or remove the copyright.
I've often been asked to open source WeatherMate[^] and TakeStock 2[^] but refuse to do so because I don't want to be exploited by others who may create derivate works of these products.
/ravi
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
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Thx for your support, he's since pulled his version after I escalated the conflict.
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That's a good outcome. Glad it ended up that way.
/ravi
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.dan.g. wrote: A while ago I decided that the support calls were more than I wanted so I asked PA to take my software off their site. They said no, their wrapper couldn't be a problem, blah, blah, blah
Refer all the support calls to PA saying that, because you are not experiencing these problems in any other distribution, it is their wrapper that is causing the problem. 
Better yet only provide an email address with an automatic answer stating this, giving their email address and telephone number, so you don't have to get involved. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Thx for your support, he's since pulled his version after I escalated the conflict.
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I am happy it worked out well for you.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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In the interest of transparency: http://portableapps.com/node/39435[^]. Added to the PortableApps Repository by AbstractSpoon in 2009 http://portableapps.com/node/20408[^].
While I don't have the details about how this entire thing took place, I hope this at least shows some transparanecy. I am not affiliated with PortableApps I do use the product so was wanting some further information as it sounded odd that it would even have to be "aired" in public like this.
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Indeed.
Dealing with him was even weirder.
He felt that renaming and rebranding ToDoList was ethical under the Eclipse license (legal yes, ethical no).
But ultimately he found that he had taken a position that was untenable, so going public is his way of saving face instead of just admitting he got it badly wrong.
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As you have released your code free they can redistribute it (bad idea IMO).
However, they cannot replace your name or re-brand without your consent, this is copyright infringement.
You have rights of copyright on your works and can set a legal case that you WILL win.
DO NOT accept the spiel and BS they are giving , it is not based on fact but an attempt to bully you into
accepting their T&Cs. DO NOT give up the licensing you have worked long and hard for.
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Happy Holi to all members of the CP.
Enjoy weekend and Lets play Holi.
modified 15-Mar-14 2:57am.
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