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I had best not get too fat before I hit 50 then. 
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s." climate-models-go-cold
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Science eh? Can it make its mind up?
Nope, this is only statistics.
They really don't know very much yet, it's mostly trial and error, nowadays with statistics. We should be happy they don't do cupping and leeches any more, except that I understand that leeches is getting back into fashion.
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Only if you're Austrian (I only read the conclusion).
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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At least you read that much, and came to a logical conclusion on top of that. 
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Sounds like a very poorly put together study to me.
The number of people in China that have diabetes is greater than the population of Mexico. Why? Fast-food, sugar, and other effects of the "modern" diet. This isn't anecdotal, it's a well documented epidemic that has evolved in the last 20 or so years as people move out of rural areas and stop eating vegetarian diets and as personal wealth increases.
The study you link to flies in the face of The China Study.[^]
Also, I didn't notice any mention of what the diet of the vegans / vegetarians was. I know a lot of veggies that eat very poorly - pastas, sweets and other crap (oh but wait, it's gluten free and organic) and are overweight or quite frankly obese. Not to mention that some of them smoke, drink, etc.
But my point is, you can't say a veggie diet is better / worse than a meat-eaters unless you look at what they're actually eating. Was this covered in the report? I didn't see it.
Marc
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Marc, the China Study has been thoroughly debunked as bad science; I checked. But it was an excellent book full of interesting information nonetheless. I have no idea what they eat on Vega, but all of my Vegan friends changed to that very specialized diet in response to health problems, not because it was a healthy (or tasty) way to dine. It seems that, having destroyed their health following one extreme, they hoped to reverse the damage following the opposite extreme. I suspect that both ends of the spectrum will kill with equal efficiency. Time will tell...
Will Rogers never met me.
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It's actually a pretty well put together study as studies go.
Firstly the data comes from a large national health study in Austria with more than 15000 samples that uses a cross-section of the Austrian population as a base. It wasn't specifically aimed to be a study on vegetarian diets. But the part sample of vegetarians is large enough to be statistically useful.
The problem with most studies that study a certain phenomenon is that the sample is skewed. Surveys are expensive and most studies done on the subject have saved money on the sampling.
The China study that you refer to had a sample size of fifty families. Did it have a useful control sample? Is it at all useful as a comparison with another country?
As to your point, I'm not arguing with that.
The problem with the Austrian study is that there is no cross sectional data, so there is no way to know what's causing the differences. But that's also mentioned in the report.
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Ahem!
Jörgen Andersson wrote: Vegetarians have significantly more...
Jörgen Andersson wrote: So we don't know if mental illness makes you go vegan, or if a vegan diet...
Vegetarianism != Veganism
Vegans I respect; they have picked a very, very hard road to walk. They are wrong, but I respect them.
Vegetarians I generally do not. The ones that pick what they define as "meat" and refuse to eat it: Chicken is out, baby chickens are OK. Cow is out, fish is fine. Pig is a no-no, bacon is "ok on weekends". "Meat is murder", but killing them for leather shoes is ok, or for gelatin, or...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Point taken.
I generally don't have a problem with neither as long as they don't preach, especially using faulty arguments, which happens way to often.
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Huh? People who eat fish but not meat are pescatarians[^]
Just because some people who claim to be "vegetarians" eat fish doesn't make them vegetarians. And nobody who eats bacon can claim to be a vegetarian.
But I'm with you on the leather thing - I find vegetarians who proudly show off their leather shoes and car interiors deeply hypocritical.
Cheers,
विक्रम
"We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread 
modified 5-Apr-14 4:02am.
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I agree - but you get them in the western world: a pop star tweets that meat is murder, and the muppets follow, but "chose" how they define veggie, to fit what they eat... Stupid.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: I find vegetarians who proudly show off their leather shoes and car interiors deeply hypocritical.
Vegetarians who eat vegetables because they feel anything else would be harmful to their body are not necessarily saying that they refrain from eating meat for any other reason.
It is the hypocrites who think that murdering animals for food is wrong and then buy leather interior for their automobile or leather footwear or leather fashion accessories is whom I find loathsome.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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JimmyRopes wrote: Vegetarians who eat vegetables because they feel anything else would be harmful to their body are not necessarily saying that they refrain from eating meat for any other reason.
Hmm, interesting point  I have never thought of vegetarianism as about me; to me it has always been about non-violence, i.e., about the animals.
My relatives are almost all vegetarians, I know hundreds of such people; but the ones who use neither silk nor leather number in the single digits.
Cheers,
विक्रम
"We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: to me it has always been about non-violence
I can understand the leather but why not silk? Of course we eat the "silk worm" (caterpillar) here so we do harvest them, but do you necessarily have to kill them to harvest the silk cocoon?
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Yes, the worms are boiled alive to get the silk  I've seen it on a school trip at a very young age and it left a lasting impression.
I hear something about some new fangled silk that doesn't involve killing the worms, but it's very dubious. Given people will stoop to anything to sell their wares here (I see local sweets with gelatin as an ingredient regularly marked as vegetarian*) I am extremely sceptical of these claims.
* Foodstuffs must be marked as vegetarian or non-vegetarian by law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_mark[^]
Cheers,
विक्रम
"We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: But I'm with you on the leather thing - I find vegetarians who proudly show off their leather shoes and car interiors deeply hypocritical.
Depends on why they are vegetarian. Most vegetarians, specially of Indian descent, that I know of are that way not by choice but due to being raised that way. They don't have any morals that their diet is based on nor do they profess a love for animals. Similar to how meat eaters don't eat every single animal out there - it's what you are used to.
That said, you'd be surprised at the number of Americans who eat fish and yet claim to be vegetarians 
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Nish Sivakumar wrote: Most vegetarians, specially of Indian descent, that I know of are that way not by choice but due to being raised that way. They don't have any morals that their diet is based on nor do they profess a love for animals.
Yeah, that's my point - they do it because they were raised that way. Almost like a religion.
I'm not religious, but am a vegetarian and do not use leather either. Still no success in getting the women to give up silk sarees though 
Cheers,
विक्रम
"We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread
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Now Google for 'vegetarianism health benefits' or something similiar. You'll find the exact opposite 
I've been a vegetarian for 16 years and I'm pretty healthy. Never sick, no allergies, etc.
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Sander Rossel wrote: Now Google for 'vegetarianism health benefits' or something similiar
Did you actually try it before posting?
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Yep. And those benefits are pretty sweet!
Just to sum up a few:
Vegetarian foods are a major source of nutrition for most people in the world.
Vegetarians have lower rates of heart disease and some forms of cancer than non-vegetarians.
Vegetarian diets can be simple and easy to prepare.
According to the ADA, vegetarians are at lower risk for developing:
-Heart disease
-Colorectal, ovarian, and breast cancers
-Diabetes
-Obesity
-Hypertension (high blood pressure)
You'll ward off disease.
You'll keep your weight down.
You'll live longer.
You'll build strong bones.
You'll be more 'regular.'
The list goes on...
Just saying A LOT has been said about food and a lot of that is contradicting each other.
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Sander Rossel wrote: Just saying A LOT has been said about food and a lot of that is contradicting each other.
You summed it up pretty well there.
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Just about every study that has found vegetarians live longer has said it is most likely that is because they are less likely to smoke and almost certainly nothing to do with diet.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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yeah!!
Thanks & Regards
Puneet Goel
Save Paper >> Save Tree >> Save Huminity
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Adolf Hitler was an Austrian vegetarian.
Hmm...
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Now, what did the study say about mental health? 
But then again, it could possibly be another mixup of causation and correlation?
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