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That's not a fair comparison though. You get so much more for your MSDN money now. I believe it's called bankruptcy.
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You may not need Ultimate. A lot of people get that but don't really use Ultimate specific features.
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THAT.IS.NOT.THE.POINT.
The point is that you pay almost 20 times as much for less tangible product (and with no improvement in support, but that's a topic for another thread).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Well, for a corporate company, 13,000 an year for Visual Studio, SQL Server, Windows OSes (including server editions), Office, BizTalk, SharePoint etc. is not that bad a deal in my opinion. It's probably less than 15% of an average software developer's salary.
It is expensive if you are a small startup, but they've got special pricing for startups (forgot the name of the program you needed to sign up to).
Not trying to counter your point here, but just looking at it from a different perspective. 
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Nish Sivakumar wrote: It's probably less than 15% of an average software developer's salary.
Gizza Job.
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Very nice of you, Nish.
But there is no way to look at it that makes it anything approaching reasonable. Why not ask your mechanic to buy all new tools at 15% of his wages, then have him put them away every year or two and buy them again. Oh, and that old style warranty thing that let you get new tools if the old ones broke or just didn't work - forget that. Microsoft is not only biting the hands that feed it, but mauling and raping them, as well.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: Why not ask your mechanic to buy all new tools at 15% of his wages,
Well, it would be the company owner that pays that. I did not mean that a software dev should pay 15% of his income to buy his dev tools. I meant that a company should be fine with paying 15% of what it pays its average dev for the dev tools. For most successful companies that'd be fairly affordable. And these are individual prices, you can get bulk corporate pricing (often at half that amount I think).
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We'll need a lot fewer developers, then, since amortizing those costs will make our products less cost-effective and reduce our sales by a fair amount. 
The idea that, simply because the company is buying - or the government - makes it okay to gouge the buyer is wrong. Period.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I don't agree. People sell software for prices far higher than that. Also if your company is not doing business at that level of profit/revenue, you do not need Ultimate. You can get lower priced editions, you can buy individual licenses etc.
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It's a good thing you don't need to also license Xamarin[^] for enterprise development.
/ravi
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Hi,
Did they hire someone from Apple to do the pricing 
With friendly greetings,
Eric Goedhart
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Eric Goedhart wrote: Did they hire someone from Apple to do the pricing
Too bad they didn't... XCode is free! 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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The price of indentured servitude with no fixed date for manumission is ... inflationary.
"You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store"
"Sixteen Tons" by Merle Travis (1946); became number-one hit in the US with Tennessee Ernie Ford's 1955 recording.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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aaahhhhrrgghhh - you've infested my cerebellum with a parasitic mind-worm!
I thought it was 'I sold my soul to the company store' - but it's difficult to make out the words while listening to it on wax cylinders 
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I have something to say but it would get marked as abuse in a nano-second.
Perhaps a simple "Oy vey!" would suffice.
That is pretty crazy - I realize it costs them money to develop, market, etc., but that is nuts.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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It's the old "Does this hurt? What about now?" trick. Keep squeezing until the blood flow stops and then ever so slightly release the pressure.
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John,
You were already a costly resource when we hired you. And now, you are proving to be even costlier than we had anticipated.
Why you no Linux ?
Holy Crap !!!
- Your New Company
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Prices for that kind of thing are what companies will pay for them, they bear no relation to actual value or sense.
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Actually, that is the value.
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BizSpark
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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An odd (and foolish) strategy.
VS is used to make programs that run on the Windows O/S, which is, I believe a MS product. The more applications available for their product the more it's worth for people to buy. No developers->no development->no sales;
Look at the Adobe Reader model (let's not get into Adobe, per se). Their dev tools are the product, but they're only useful of everyone can use the output - hence the free reader (&etc.). Since I don't see M$ giving out free versions of window in the near future, they should take the complimentary part of the model.
Once users/developers are pushed into that open-source development environment - well, it's easier to make things that work in other O/S's.
Come to think of it, maybe it would be better if the price were $75,000 . . .
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Strange, we just went through true up I saw the costs it was no where near 13k for MSDN.
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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VS 2013U MSDN is $13k to subscribe and $4k to renew.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Visual-Studio-Ultimate-2013-with-MSDN/productID.284832100[^]
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I remember when the most expensive MSDN subscription was just $700, and included ALL Microsoft software products, and that was when they actually pressed CDs to deliver and update it.
That was before MS started competing with IBM in selling corporate BOGOware. Unless you're deving for one of the bogoware apps you don't need anything beyond premium, and depending on what your employer's other licensing agreements look like might not even need more than pro (my dev VMs get their OS/etc from corporate site licenses not MSDN). The pricing for the corporate bogo-tools only needs to be cheap compared to the competition; and I've been told the whole set of IBM (ir)Rational garbageware runs upwards of $20k; making VS cheap for the (moronic) mega-corp market it's actually aimed at.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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