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Colborne_Greg wrote: It makes it easier for people that have less or no skill to be more productive
And that's exactly what raises my expectations whenever someone comes with VB.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
I hold an A-7 computer expert classification, Commodore. I'm well acquainted with Dr. Daystrom's theories and discoveries. The basic design of all our ship's computers are JavaScript.
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I came from Cobol and JCL, with 25 years of experience. I own a start up software company.
Anyone that has C experience or web experience I find are bad employees, they make great leaders, not great employees, unless your business in devoted to C and C type languages, then you probably have 20 programmers to my one.
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Correlation is not causation. Maybe the reason the C programmers are necessary is the nature of the problem that cause C to be picked as the implementation language in the first place.
I've spent most of the last 30 years programming very near the hardware level. VB would have been a huge inconvenience for the types of problems I was solving. This doesn't make C/C++ inherently better or worse then VB.. only suited to a different problem domain.
As to good vs. bad employees.. there are lots of ways to get those.. I've seen my share of good VB programmers and bad C programmers.. and VICE VERSA. Again.. correlation does not equal causation.
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25 years here, came up from cobol and JCL, and worked on switching systems for northern telecom.
We are in the cell phone era, not the hardware layer.
Anyways the topic is that VB needs more credit.
I have seen my share of both as well, and when training people to program how I want them to program its easier to employ people that are not programmers and teach them what I need them to know in VB, if I tried this in C# it would not be possible.
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My experience of non-programmers is like this: they are good at small things. Ask them for small programs that do simple things and you are golden. Ask them for anything requiring Systems Analysis and real rigor and you've got serious quality problems on your hands. Its not that you can't get it from untrained individuals.. only that it takes a LOT longer.
And 'the hardware layer' is where systems programming lives, which is what I do.. 'cellphone era' is a reference to time, not computers. I really don't know what you are trying to say..
As to C# vs. VB and trainability.. nonsense. I've seen folks pick up both. And seriously: what do you have against programmers?
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Considering 3 people are doing the work of 30 people, with 5 code monkeys that have no skill, I would say this business model is working.
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How long have you been running this way? How many bugs do you fix per week? Saying your business is working means nothing to me.. there are quality measures you either meet or you don't.
I'll put it very directly: I've seen folks make money while treating their customers like dogs. And left those same customers with applications that barely worked. You can make money and still create completely useless buggy software. Financial success is important to you I'm sure.. your customers have different motivations..
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Programs here are written and completed within three days.
Up until this point the company has been focused on real estate software for Canadian Companies, 100s of Unidex apps will be released for Windows phone 8.1 when Windows Phone 8.1 is released to the public either this month or it looks like Windows Phone 8.1 won't be released till November.
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I wouldn't write such empty Try's but.... still I like it over this here ^^
}
}
}
}
}
and this things aint better...
}
}
}
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I gotta say, I start commenting when there's about 5 or so - generally function, loop, try, subloop, try... a quick phrase about what's being looped or what scope the exceptions are.
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My entire company is based around dealing with behavior's of errors. When nothing is done for an error it was meant to be that way
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Is english your first language?
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I would make sure you have your flame proof pants on..
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
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Colborne_Greg wrote: that no other language can do
Pretty bold statement, given it's followed by a code block that could easily be converted to C#. 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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As well there shouldn't be. C# doesn't need it.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Considering the missing connection between me knowing C# can get away without using the with word, proves its problems.
The with keyword gets the coder in a mindset.
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That may be part of the problem...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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What problem?
People with less skill are more focused on getting the job done, then writing cool useless code.
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The problem is that "people with less skill" assume that a "ooh shiny" language feature is cool at all.
With is a PITA - it doesn't improve readability, it obfuscates it slightly and just makes it slightly shorter to type.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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My employee cost vs performance says otherwise
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Really? You have accurate data comparing those using 'with blocks' to those without? Those with C experience to those without? Those who know what a stack frame is compared to those who barely understand what a stack data structure is?
Calls inside a 'with block' can either be accessing properties or local variables and it isn't immediately obvious which it is. You have to look up the page to see.
Also, you're suppressing exceptions, which, if you're talking about cost of development, means your debugging cycle is a lot more intense because it doesn't blow up when something goes wrong.
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The entire difference between C# and VB are involved in that factoring, suppressing exceptions is not an acceptable thing for my employee's to do, suppressing exceptions happens by my efficiency team; who decided that at this moment didn't need to know the error.
In visual basic with block
With CameraControl.LastKnownTaken
DateTakenBlock.Text = .DateTaken
FileNameBlock.Text = .FileName
LatitudeBlock.Text = .Latitude
LongitudeBlock.Text = .Longitude
End With
notice the period, if you cant figure out that the words with a period before them belong to the with block I wouldn't hire you
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Let's get one thing straight, I'm the guy that does the hiring these days. I wouldn't hire you -- someone who so vehemently defends unmaintainable crap and touts it as a feature.
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