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Munchies_Matt wrote: In Europe it is almost shameful to say you believe in god, it makes you look like an idiot if you do. Americans just don't get that.
I don't think it is as extreme, at least here in Catalonia there's people that are heavy believers and others that are atheists and a good blend of "all-you-can-think-buffet".
I've met all flavored people and I respect everyone, it's ok, it's what they believe.
Years ago, when the film "the passion of Christ" was shown, I was in the US, and I still remember a girl on one factory I was working in coming to see us and asking us if we had already seen it or not, that we should see it and that it was the most amazing thing she had seen in the whole world... something like BFF (Best Film Forever you know) I was surprised as I'm not used to this kind of enthusiasm regarding religion, but nothing else, no need to tell anyone that is an idiot here or there because they believe in something. She enjoyed it. Perfect.
PS: And of course I know you were not trying to annoy or insult anyone... 
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Yes, I meant more north west Europe, including France, but particularly in the Germanic countries and the UK. While Catalonia is the most southerly northern European country, it isn't THAT northern still. 
Joan Murt wrote: And of course I know you were not trying to annoy or insult anyone
No, I really am just describing the state of religion in my part of Europe. Americans just don't get it, it is good to hear other people confirming what I say.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: While Catalonia is the most southerly northern European country, it isn't THAT northern still.
LOL!
The only problem in your post is that we are still not a country... let's hope this will change soon. 
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Have you never heard Catalonia called that? It is, because of its industry and so on, considered a northern country in style.
And yes, if it were a country it would be far richer!
We often go there on holiday, its only 3 or 4 hours from us in France, and its got a stunning coast line. Add in its greenness, and the proximity of skiing, and two international airports I don't know why Catalonia isn't far more popular for business, it got everything, literally.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: I have shown them evidence that church attendance is about 0.0001%
You made that claim and your only evidence was your adhoc anecdotal evidence based on nothing more than you driving by a church.
Munchies_Matt wrote: or some such and they insist that it is 10%
There are various, multiple sources, that demonstrate beliefs and those are based on actual scientific collection techniques.
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Go away idiot. You don't live in the UK, you have no idea what its like.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Go away idiot. You don't live in the UK, you have no idea what its like.
Based on you - apparently very non-scientific.
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No religion in the lounge, although I don't see why if we can have a grown up sensible discussion about it - oh yeah, that'll be why.
Growing up I went to a C of E primary school, although I don't remember any religious instruction at all, it just meant we were affiliated with a church and went to all the usual services (Easter, Harvest, some sort of Carol thing) which was just some time away from the school and a bit of a sing song.
Secondary school had RE lessons each week, which was delivered by an ordained Christian of some description, but all I can remember from the lessons was copying out a page from the bible and an appropriate drawing and listening to the teacher's stories of all the countries he had been mugged in. I think he knew and accepted none of us had any interest in learning anything about religion.
I am fairly certain my father does not, and has never, believed in any sort of God (although Brian Clough might come close). I think my mother might, although she has never talked to us about such things, I know she used to put my religion down as Methodist on hospital forms when I was a child and her and my father were married in a Methodist church.
I was in cubs and we again went to all the usual church services, but again it was a day out and marching about, I don't remember any religiousness to it.
I got married in a church (the one both my primary and secondary schools used), but only because I liked to backdrop and theater it added to the occasion. As far as I know my wife doesn't have any religious beliefs. I quite like the pomp and ceremony of religion, the buildings and the costumes, it is just the religion bit of it that seems a bit silly to me.
Some of my friends growing up had religious parents (of various different flavours of Christianity) and were forced to church on a regular basis, very few of them took on any of that belief, most were turned away from religion more than us who had no exposure I think.
My daughter does at the moment believe in God and Jesus, she has learnt about these things at school. I don't support or take issue with the things she talks to me about at the moment, she can make her own mind up.
So, the only real effect religion has had on me over the last 40 years is effecting the hours that I can go shopping.
I don't really know what an atheist is, nor an agnostic. I've never bothered finding out cos I don't need a label for myself.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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chriselst wrote: No religion in the lounge
That's what we are talking about, 'no religion'. That is, after all, what atheism is.
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Oh atheism is a religion alright these days, just one that worships there being no god.
It has meetings, and famous preachers, and arguments with the other religions.
Just need it to start a war and kill a few thousand non-non-believers and it'll gain full membership.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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It's a good time here in the US to do this because there is a real "don't offend anyone" attitude right now.
Have you ever just looked at someone and knew the wheel was turning but the hamster was dead?
Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9.
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Mike Hankey wrote: there is a real "don't offend anyone" attitude right now.
Oh God, that one has hit you now, has it? My condolences!
We've had it here in Sweden for years: Nobody can say ANYTHING out of fear of offending somebody and/or not being politically correct.
All the political parties think and say exactly the same thing: NOTHING! Because they are afraid they might upset somebody (who could potentially vote for them)...
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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Yeah that's pretty much where we're headed also.
Have you ever just looked at someone and knew the wheel was turning but the hamster was dead?
Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9.
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priceless
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Johnny J. wrote: All the political parties think and say exactly the same thing: NOTHING! Because they are afraid they might upset somebody (who could potentially vote for them)...
I think it's more they might say something that someone with a political agenda against them will twist and use their buddies in the media to hype up beyond all reason, which will then manipulate somebody (who could potentially vote for them)...
I am quite certain that almost everything that has been done for the sake of not offending someone has not, nor would it ever have, offended anyone.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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chriselst wrote: I am quite certain that almost everything that has been done for the sake of not offending someone has not, nor would it ever have, offended anyone.
Ah well, let's draw a non-offensive picture of Muhammed, why don't we?
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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I did say almost everything.
Although that was a case where it wasn't until certain sections of the media picked up the story and ran with it that anyone got offended in a serious way. And they had to try quite hard to get the reaction with the first few attempts failing.
Plus of course the whole point of commissioning the cartoons was to offend Muslims, albeit to say that offending Muslims was as reasonable a thing to do as offending anything else, a point of view that lost some of its force after it was revealed the same publication had refused to publish a cartoon of Jesus a year before for fear of offending Christians.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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My mere existance should and does offend people, but I'm so well-armed, nobody would dare bring it up. See? That's what I call fear respect.
An armed society is a polite society.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Except for Christians, in which case, you can offend all you want.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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That was implied!
Have you ever just looked at someone and knew the wheel was turning but the hamster was dead?
Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9.
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Rob,
Seriously, from the BBC and on the internet? That makes for an accurate poll. I'll have my current poll up for them to quote....
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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The next bit of trouble I get for thinking mainstream religion is even sillier than the FSM will be the first. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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What do Finite State Machines have to do with it? Shirley you don't find them silly?
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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I think the hate is more of a red state thing... At least in New York City, no one really cares. I'm an atheist, and the most I ever get after telling someone (If it comes up in conversation) is a shrug. I figure, just give it some time... The kids these days are pretty screwed up, but it sounds like they're seeing through the smoke and incense on this one.
So yeah, the US is a little screwy on the whole mysticism thing, but we're moving in the right direction. Europe just has a head start on us... I know we're supposed to be the best at everything, because that's what the men in suits on the magic screen keep telling us, but this time we're lagging a bit behind...
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I live in one of the reddest and most religious states. I am not a believer and nobody cares. I've spoken with other non-believers who complain about being persecuted, but that's because they see persecution at every corner in every comment and won't shut the hell up--their dogma is even more oppressive than the dogma they oppose.
It's just like the person in your office who won't shut up about how great or rotten Mac, Agile, Windows, Unix, Python, Subversion, C++, .NET, Microsoft etc. are. (Remember the, "There is no Windows 9!" guy? Yeah, like that.)
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