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Mike Mullikin wrote: One of the most basic conventions of today's OS GUI's is "drag and drop"
I can agree with that.
However, it's also very standard in graphical environments to use ctrl+c and ctrl+v for copy and paste. It's not just os specific, it's followed by many programs (which is what makes in convention).
Also, reading your post made me realize something else. Using shortcuts is probably considered advanced for users. So, though it may be annoying to users, I don't think my previous argument really holds true. I think it's generally expected to find the proper uses on advanced topics if you expect to use them. Much like installing some add ons in visual studio (or compiz in linux , for instance) will nerf up all your keyboard shortcuts. It's then my responsibility, as an advanced user, to read the docs and remember accordingly.
So, I think I'm retracting my argument. I don't think it's relevant here. A basic intuitive environment does, as you pointed out, mean drag and drop.
Elephant elephant elephant, sunshine sunshine sunshine
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loctrice wrote: However, it's also very standard in graphical environments to use ctrl+c and ctrl+v for copy and paste. It's not just os specific, it's followed by many programs (which is what makes in convention).
Don't forget that this "cntrl+c, cntrl+v" of which you speak is only standard because the Windows and Unix keyboards didn't have the "command" symbol on it and so replaced the "original" command+ short-cuts with "control+" shortcuts when they copied the "original" apple shortcuts...
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Billy-T wrote: is only standard because -snip-....
After it becomes a standard, the reasoning is seldom important.
Billy-T wrote: they copied the "original"
I'm just goina dance around that.
All I was trying to say is that when you make a program, standards should be considered. You can see that later in the thread I reversed my position on this particular situation. (if you read the thread).
This [^] is a nice example of how things, IMO , should be done (check the copy command for each OS). No way to keep to a convention because there is no clear convention. So, rather than just make something up and force users to learn something new, they compromised well.
I understand this doesn't apply here, which is what I realized in another place in the thread.
Elephant elephant elephant, sunshine sunshine sunshine
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Wrong. The original Xerox PARC GUI, which every OS we know today copied, including MacOS, used the "control +" shortcuts. Only Apple decided to break with that convention, which makes them (and you) wrong.
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So IBM and Microsoft get to define keyboard conventions for Apple? How odd that you would believe that...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Of course Apple has it's own conventions.
The OP was complaining that the Windows keystrokes he was familiar with did not work on a Mac. I merely asked why he didn't use drag and drop to copy (or move) the files instead of keystrokes that could vary from one OS to the next.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mac has both, and had drag and drop before Linux had a graphical UI I think...
But Command-Option-V, or Windows-Key-Option-V I think is he's talking about a Windows keyboard.
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loctrice wrote: So the complaint was that some basic things that are the same across os's are different here.
But that's really not fair since many of these conventions predate Windows...
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Careful, your apple is showing.
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Just as long as I don't show my core feelings...
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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Thanks for your help - I'll try this out next time I use their machines. There is, as I've said in other posts - a certain amount of who moved my cheese?
_Maxxx_ wrote: or perhaps you can
I totally can 
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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So far I've only used two apple devices.
The first one shredders them into tiny pieces.
The second one presses all the juice out of those tiny pieces.
By mid October I will very likely do that again and make some nice cider.
Cheers!
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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Apfelsaft !
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Apfelschorle plus apfelkorn
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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Keith Barrow wrote: Apfelschorle plus apfelkorn
Pfui! 
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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Rage wrote: Apfelsaft !
That is only the beginning, after myself and the yeast are done with it it'll be transformed into cidre.
Cheers!
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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Yeah, a lot of times it seems like they do stuff just trying to be different.... but hey, the terminal commands should all be just about the same as any Linux (slightly different there too, but hey, at least you have man or --help).
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The command prompt/terminal is what saved me.
Alberto Brandolini: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.
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In fact I think Apple did it first with Command-C - Ctrl-C in windows was used because they didn't have a command key!
Windows used to us the insert and delete keys with sift (I think)
So it's not trying to be different- it's being consistent!
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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"Windows used to use the insert and delete keys with shift (I think)" ... it always has done, and 99% of the time it's shift/delete shift/insert that I use for cut/paste. I even use it for copy (with text) by cutting and immediately pasting, then pasting where I want the copy... just find that easier than the rather awkward ctrl-c / ctrl-v combinations (getting my little finger "lower" on the keyboard than my index finger).
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I had to use an application where the old CUA keys were the only way to defeat the Ctrl+C protection - or, more probably, bug. 
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OH, the humanity!
My favourite Appleism was when working with my BIL (a now reformed, but then Apple nut). His hard disk became full and he asked for my help:
Delete some files: Operation failed - disk full
Move some files to floppy disk (yes, it was a while back): Operation failed - disk full
Let's try editing a file to reduce its size: You guessed!
I told him "You have a very effective door stop there!"
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Been there, done that. I only needed to download a file, and put it on a USB stick. I had to look up all the steps in Safari. Finder? Copy&Paste ?  Even the trafic light instead of the cross to close a window was disturbing.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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