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There is a lot of this old stuff in the manufacturing world. You want a job in manufacturing, say you are a Fortran expert.
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This wonderful language should be the basis of all new programmer's education. There's nothing like trying to debug a computed GOTO to captivate the mind!
...it worked for me. of course I learned to program in assembler first so FORTRAN was a major step up. We also used to wear white coats in the computer room so that probably dates it a little!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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COMPUTED GO TO's are for sissies.
In COBOL, you could change the place you go to (GO TO HERE, where HERE is the label of the statement you GO TO) at run time using the ALTER statement.
After a couple of different places where the ALTER statement is used to change the flow of program, the weak-minded quit programming as a profession. 
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They should be learning logic and fundamentals to solving problems before they even start writing code. Learning code by itself, doesn't make you a programmer or a great programmer, at that.
With that said though, it would be hard not to show some examples and exercises without getting into the code. So, I answered C#, C++, and Java.
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Well put - those skills are infinitely more valuable. The language you use is just a tool to get a task done.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
-- Marcus Brigstocke, British Comedian
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I do not agree with your analogy. Sorry.
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surely. but we can be friends despite that.  have a great day
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If you twist my arm, I guess. 
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I have to confess that you were right in first place. I read incorrectly "in College".  Now I'm totally with you.
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I had 3 programming classes in high school using; BASIC, Pascal, and C. It got me excited about a career as a software developer. At the high school level, I believe that teaching the basics and exposure to multiple languages is great for new learners.
The courses were all elective, so only the students that were interested took them.
Hogan
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I don't think its the job of high school teachers to address such a narrow subject as a specific programming language. You might as well teach them to hand pull pints of bitter, which would be more useful.
The class would be full of the geeky twerpy kids anyway and they would know more than the teacher after 2 weeks 
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Two weeks? Probably upon entering the class, more likely.
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OMG,
This is what is wrong with our high schools.
They have killed Metal Shop, Wood Shop, Drafting, Plastic Shop (loved that class),
welding, etc.
I left school in 1985 and I could ACTUALLY do stuff.
Todays kids get class assignments to open a Twitter account... Like they need help with that.
But they don't learn how to balance a check book.
I also took Computer Science where I learned stuff that CARRIED ME EASILY through college:
BASIC, COBOL, FORTAN, Macro-11 Assembler, Job Scheduling, Run-Time/Run-Burst, paper and green screen monitors. The basics of Escape Codes to control monitor positioning. How to compile pieces of an operating system.
Honestly, not sure if I would have went to college without access to these classes. I grew up outside of Detroit, and it was a dangerous place. The computer room was one of the safest places I could be.
Students at that age have AMAZING potential, but they don't even realize it. Our group of students wrote software for the School Store (Inventory/Sales Management) and the Library, and general utilities for the teachers to manage the classes (creating all of the user accounts for a class with X students in one command, not X commands)
In my case, I went from programming in High School, straight into a professional software development job for 2 years, then left for college. I was making more than my father, and it funded my college. The thought of NOT offering this (when there is an ABSOLUTE SHORTAGE of this talent is mind boggling).
It is the job of Every High School to help the students prepare to succeed in life. In areas that the teachers may NOT know well, but may provide enough guidance to help. Tim Spanke died this year, he was the computer teacher I credit the most with allowing me to open my wings and learning how to fly!
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Schools are woefully short on teachers who can approach anything that requires logical thought. A friend helped his son with some physical science homework and the teacher gave the boy an F. When the father asked the teacher why she replied that she just wanted him to repeat what the book said because she didn’t understand anything about physics.
The thought of high school teachers trying to teach programming or logic makes me quake with fear.
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1. Every kid would first learn the basics of logic and logic gates.
2. Learn to build basic circuits like counters, adders, etc.
3. Learn some basic analog electronics - resistors, capacitors, induction coils, transistors, etc.
4. Build some basic analog stuff -- amplifiers, tuners, ...
5. Every kid would get an rPI or an Arduino or a BBB
6. The first intro to actual programming would be learning assembly language to blink some lights, measure voltages on the board, etc. Learn how to use a debugger to single step and inspect registers.
7. Maybe learn to write a serial communication protocol between two of the devices, and it would be cool to use infrared optics for that rather than wires.
8. Learn C. Do the same thing in #7 but in C. Learn how to use a debugger again.
9. Learn how to test
10. Learn how to document
11. Learn how to write a requirements document for then next project.
... and so forth (no pun intended.)
I think it would be really useful to introduce functional programming fairly early too, as well database architecture, parallel processing, etc.
Marc
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I agree whole heatedly, but I would also transition them into C++.
What you have proposed is similar to the logic I taught my children to drive; if you can learn to drive with a stick you can drive anything! And they can!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0 Beta
There's a fine line between crazy and free spirited and it's usually a prescription.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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Mike Hankey wrote: but I would also transition them into C++.
Definitely. I left out all the OO stuff, the post was getting too long, haha.
Marc
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Mike Hankey wrote: if you can learn to drive with a stick you can drive anything!
Coming from a country where cars without gear sticks are almost solely for the disabled or women who really, really cannot work out how to drive with one; I am always amazed (and amused) by the way many American's seem to view 'driving a stick' as some sort of Herculean achievement.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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It's funny very few people I know can drive a stick.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0 Beta
There's a fine line between crazy and free spirited and it's usually a prescription.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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I have picked up many sticks[^], eaten sticks[^], and even watched a stick[^]. But I have never driven a stick[^].
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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Once around the block and you're hooked.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0 Beta
There's a fine line between crazy and free spirited and it's usually a prescription.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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Synchronized or unsynchronized transmission?
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Unsync. of course, Sync. is for sissies.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0 Beta
There's a fine line between crazy and free spirited and it's usually a prescription.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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That is an interesting point of view, and reflects a previous mentality to programming.
Originally, CS was an offshoot of engineering and math departments, rather than a department of itself. In fact, my 'CS' degree says 'Applied Physics' on it, reflecting that mentality...
But the point of my post is to say, of everyone I have worked with, it was the Electrical Engineers turned programmers that were the best coders! In everything... consistency of quality, design patterns, teaching, work-ethic, troubleshooters... whatever it was, the EEs were the best. The folks churning out of CS departments (instead of engineering departments) always seemed either clueless, or needed the most help to ramp up.
If I ran a coding business, I would hire EEs almost exclusively.
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Pualee wrote: That is an interesting point of view, and reflects a previous mentality to programming.
Yes, I'm showing my age, but I also believe that a solid foundation is important. Being able to have some sort of a mental picture of what happens physically in a computer is, IMO, a prerequisite.
Pualee wrote: it was the Electrical Engineers turned programmers that were the best coders! In everything... consistency of quality, design patterns, teaching, work-ethic, troubleshooters... whatever it was, the EEs were the best.
That's been my experience too. You might find it interesting that my first love was actually with hardware, and I learned a lot about digital circuits before doing any coding.
Marc
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