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Note that in Canada check is spelled cheque. This could be the whole basis of the misunderstanding.
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Exactly. If he's getting paid monthly and the checks are still in the mail, it warrants a few phone calls first before going all "I'm gonna busta cap up in this mofo" gangsta on him.
Jeremy Falcon
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You know the situation better than we do man. If you've tried to contact him for almost two weeks with no luck, then I'd say something's up. Just make sure he's not on vacation, etc. Whatever the case, best of luck to you.
Jeremy Falcon
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You have almost nothing to gain by yanking the app without notice like that. Assuming you've had a good working relationship with this company for the last 2 years, there is a good chance that even if this project gets cut off you'll see more work from them in the future. If not, they might at least be willing to give a reference.
How much would it cost you to leave the app up and running for a few months? Would the value of potential new work or a good reference be worth that?
I would at least send an email stating your concern about the lack of contact and your plan to take the application down on a certain date (3/1?). If there is still no response I would recommend putting a splash screen on the application warning the users that the application will cease working on the date listed above. That gets their attention without causing them any real pain and/or panic.
You don't want your first move to be the nuclear option.
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Do not even think of deleting anything from the client system.
I don't know Canadian law, I don't know California law.
But it's very likely that it would be construed as the computer equivalent of criminal damage.
And bear in mind, we only get your side of the story: have you spoken to them? Why not? Two years without communications at all? Not something I'd expect from either side: it may be that they have assumed you are not working on the project at all and gone elsewhere. When did you send them an invoice? What were it's terms?
Talk to them, explain where you are and where you want the pair of you to be and see what they say. You can always sue them for breach of contract when you know what is going on.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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You misunderstood.
I've been talking to the guy daily for 2 years. Since the first of Jan, I've had no contact. I've sent emails, left voicemails, and talked to others at the company and asked them to have him contact me.... no response.
I KNOW he's in the office, I KNOW he's getting my messages. He just all of a sudden started ignoring me. I think he's probably decided he's done with the project and doesn't want to settle up. I agree with your prior post that it's only the 12th, but I'm seeing him disappear, so I want to nip it at the bud now.
As far a legal, at least here in CA, when you're hired as an independent, YOU own the code. I typically hand over ownership once the project is done and they accept it.
So for now, it's within my rights to deny them the use of the app. I don't really want to, but it would get his attention.
I could put in a "Login Denied. Please contact..." kind of thing.
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If he's ignoring you on purpose and you still own the software, then more power to you. I would at least announce your intentions on his voice mail first to give him some time to think about it. Just make sure it's not said in anger, but more along the lines of genuine concern, and "for safety reasons" blah blah, you'll have to suspend it to make sure non-authed users can't access the system. Has the same effect - forcing a phone call - without sounding like you're trying to retaliate.
Jeremy Falcon
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If he's that far away from you how do you KNOW he's in the office and getting your messages??
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Because I talked to other people who are there.
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Well I agree with the other commenters who are suggesting keeping the communication going. If you are in contact with the company but not the individual it might upset any thoughts of doing something to the software - surely your contract is with the company not an individual within it?
Can't you ask one of the people you are in contact with to give him a "nudge" to return your emails?
Most legal approaches would suggest at least 30 days before an action is taken unless you put something contrary to that in your Terms & Conditions.
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There are legal procedures that have to be followed to repossess stuff. Generally it involves sending a certified letter giving 30 days official notice to "pay or quit", or something similar. You obviously don't know what those procedures are, which means you need to talk to a lawyer before you do something that might land you in jail.
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zephaneas wrote: As far a legal, at least here in CA, when you're hired as an independent, YOU own the code. I typically hand over ownership once the project is done and they accept it....
So for now, it's within my rights to deny them the use of the app. I don't really want to, but it would get his attention.
Do NOT do that. You are COMPLETELY wrong.
The legal analogy is as follows.
If someone agrees to buy your book and does not pay then you have the right to sell the book to someone else. You do NOT have the right to break into their house and take it back.
And the US has specific laws about doing just that which make it a federal crime to do so.
Your copyright only extends to the code itself. Your copy on your computer.
Any other access depends on exactly who 'owns' the computer one which the application is running. And 'own' really is a key term here. For example a cloud device for which the other person is paying the bill is unlikely be 'owned' by you even if you have access.
The only safe ownership in this case is if you own the server yourself (the hardware belongs to you) or all of the contracts for hosting/cloud are in your name and only your name. And even that can depend on contracts between you and them.
Repeating this again - stopping the server can result in CRIMINAL federal charges against you.
Even if you are sure that you own the server then I suggest the following
1. Talk to a lawyer with experience in software law.
2. Insure that you can prove that you tried to contact the person. (Ask the lawyer but at least a registered letter.)
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As others have said, don't sabotage the system. That could turn a misunderstanding into real conflict. And if you end up in court, I wonder if an act like that might work against you.
Make every effort to contact the client... And if possible (And if you haven't already), add some logging to the server so you know if/when they're actually using it. If all use has stopped, maybe the company closed up shop. If they're still using it, then those are records you can use to support your case if you need to sue them later.
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I'm not sure I'd agree with everything that's been posted so far:
Removing something to the value of what you are owed, especially if you provided it, is almost certainly not illegal per se (that comes under a legal concept of "self-help"). There is no crime of theft as you are holding an item until it's paid for (under some definitions, the client is the thief). Normally, this should only be done after a notice period, but notifying the client may remove your ability to do this. Certainly you should give notice after (if) you've done it.
Next, as you have been paid for 2 years, ownership of your product may be complicated. Under many consultancy contracts, you are only owed for the services supplied during the last period. A lot will depend on what the contract says.
Clearly doing malicious damage could be, and probably is, a crime. Again interpretation is key here and if removing what you've not been paid for breaks something else it is probably not criminal, but subject to civil law.
Another point is that removing your software doesn't necessarily settle your claim as, unless you can sell it to recover your loss, you have still suffered damage.
Some notes of caution:
- Unless the contract dictates otherwise, this is subject to Canadian law, not American, so advice that applies to America is probably not much use. Canadian law has much more in common with British law from which it was derived
- Canadian courts tend to favour the "little guy" and if the client has the assets you might consider suing them here
- Canada has very strict border controls. Falling foul of the law (here or there) could see you prevented from entering Canada
- I'm not a lawyer and, although I've been around a bit, you should probably seek legal advice (germane to Canada) before doing anything drastic
As said by others, try contacting them, but I wouldn't threaten any action other than suing if they don't pay up. Do you know if they have the wherewithal to pay? There's not much point in doing anything if they're broke. Is it a limited liability company? If so, even wealthy principals probably won't get you paid if the company is broke. Most important, don't delay. If they are broke, you need to get your names on the creditors list and it pays to get paid before bankruptcy is confirmed! You might even consider negotiating as 50c/$ is better than nothing!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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PhilLenoir wrote: Removing something to the value of what you are owed, especially if you provided it, is almost certainly not illegal per se (that comes under a legal concept of "self-help")
The problem that I see with this is that if the OP wrote the software but the owner added the data, then it WOULD be taking something that isn't yours. It's one thing to take back the code that you wrote...but if you are damaging the data and/or stealing data...that just feels like something completely different, to me. Just because your code organized and setup the data doesn't make it yours.
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True, but self-help is not actually limited to what you provided. Let's look at an analogy: I buy a car on credit and don't make my payments I filled the car with gas and the credit company repossesses the car. The value of the car, including the value of the gas may be more than the residual on the loan agreement. In such a case, if I don't pay up and get my car (and gas) released, the loan company can sell the car, take off the residual and reasonable costs and return the difference to me (the analogy might fall down a bit here as I've probably lost the gas). In any case, I could probably sue to get my gas back! 
If the OP does seize the database he should offer to strip it of data and even return the data, in say CSV format, or return the thing intact after his damages have been addressed.
A good example in Ontario, Canada, there's a law that demonstrates this principle. It's the "Roaming at Large Act". If you own an animal that strays on to my property and does some damage, I am entitled to seize the animal. After giving notice (2 days is required), if you have not compensated me for the damage (plus any additional expense), I can sell the animal, returning any difference to you (or sue for a shortfall). I know this because my neighbour's cattle demolished our shared fence and rampaged on my lot. I didn't seize them, but I did research the law and sent him a robust notice!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Interesting thoughts...although in your analogy a tank of gas is pretty negligible compared to the cost of the entire car. That isn't always the case with data. And especially if that data contained personal information of customers. How much is that worth? And that data is "owned" by the company but there is also a customer who has a vested interest in who has that data and what is done with it. That seems much more complicated to me.
I guess I approached it more from the view point of...I was a customer and gave that guy my data trusting him to not sell it to low life marketers. Now that guy didn't pay his bills and his angry IT took my data. Is that guy going to sell my data? Does that guy have the needed security to ensure that it isn't also stolen from him? If I start getting robo calls, I'm going to be pissed. And all I can do is hope that karma catches up with him.
Anyway...just my thoughts.
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Do not damage the system.
All contacts should be logged.
Use Registered mail if possible.
If he still own you money, then send a "dunning" asking to be paid according to the contract you both signed.
If All fails, you can either let it go (couple of weeks with no pay is not fun, but cut your losses); or hire a lawyer ($$$ and time and frustration).
I'd rather be phishing!
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zephaneas wrote: $hitty
I don't know what that word is ... but I have an opinion about what your next move should be.
Certified U.S. Postal letter with return address and signature required.
End of discussion. Any other "move" or bicep stiffening transcendentalism on the part of you as the legal contractor would warrant legal action on his behalf.
(I smell a subpoena ...)
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There are too many "holes" in this story for me to have any "deep thoughts:"
1. you have not disclosed up-front many details of the situation, but have revealed them only gradually as people here have responded to you.
2. still unknown:
a. do you have a signed written contract: if you do, who with, person, or company ? If you do, what are the relevant terms of that contract ?
b. what do the people you say you at the company when you call: do you ask them directly where your contact is, or why they are not responding to you.
c. does the client have the source code ?
d. was there any crisis involved here, any exchange, or event, that led to bad feelings or mis-trust between you and your client ?
3. ownership of code: if you have been paid for 24 months, then I would think legally the people who pay you do have a legal claim to ownership of some kind. but: what does the contract, if any, say ?
good luck, Bill
«What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning» Werner Heisenberg
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zephaneas wrote: If I had to guess, I'd have to say he's decided to cancel the project.
Why are you guessing? Why not just phone, send an email, registered letter, etc and ask what's going on? If he still does not respond then make sure the application stops working properly until he does.
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Install a politely worded message into the application start-up stating that this application is not paid for and will stop working on Feb 1 if payment is not forthcoming, or an agreement is not reached by then.
After Feb 1, an equally polite message stating that the application has become inactive due to ...
Keep it polite, professional and factual.
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First, take a deep breath. It sucks to not get paid.
But it happens. This represents roughly 1/24th (less than 5%) of the total billing.
Be careful doing anything "destructive". US Laws are clear. You can be charged with TRIPLE DAMAGES.
Also, when it comes down to shutting down software, that 5% number is important.
Would you be able to justify to a Jury that you took 100% of his business down, for 5% backpay,
well within the 30 days allotted to most companies to pay a bill?
Breathe.
Determine what YOU want to do next. (Do you LOVE this project so much, that you would take stock, or defer your salary in some way to help him make it through a tight time? Are you ready to move on anyways?)
Forget about this guy, and what he has done. You can't change it anyways. Think about who you want to be. Be that person. Move on. It is business. It is nothing personal, don't take it personally.
I have a client who owes me a small chunk (about half of a month), and closed their doors. Similar story. I just refocused on other clients, and did not think about it until I responded to this. You know what? I am making more with the other clients... Would I do ONE THING to ruin my name, reputation, or their defunct company? NOT on your life. Bad Karma. It is not even worth hiring a lawyer to go after. ($5,000 - $10,000 retainer, lawyer gets 33%, etc. etc.).
There is just too much work out there to worry about the idiot who wont pay or can't pay.
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DUDE --> GET A LAWYER… GET A LAWYER… GET A LAWYER… GET A LAWYER… GET A LAWYER!!!!!
Do you actually "own" that code? What's in the contract? How does CA's law play into this? Can the "code" be considered abandoned? Where do the servers operate... US or Canada; how do those local laws effect this situation? Can some legal precedent set in a local court be harmful/helpful? Could disabling that software be considered a move to hold it for ransom?
I'm basically trying to say the situation is complex and should require legal research. Do you have that kind of legal skill? Even if you do, are you willing to take on that kind of professional (even personal) risk?
Hire a lawyer skilled in corporate and international law. Take his/her advice. They might even say that it's not possible to "win" or it's not worth the financial cost. Don't let this situation become self-destructive. If the lawyer says you can "win" then let the lawyer exact your revenge... you just sit back and smile.
- great coders make code look easy
- When humans are doing things computers could be doing instead, the computers get together late at night and laugh at us. - ¿Neal Ford?
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