Welcome to the Lounge

Fabio Franco16-Jun-15 4:57

Fabio Franco

16-Jun-15 4:57

I'm really happy you found value on what I said. All the best!

To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson

Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia

milo-xml16-Jun-15 2:22

milo-xml

16-Jun-15 2:22

You can still be a leader and practice your leadership even if you're not in the "leadership position". I'm not in a leadership position, but people look to me for guidance because they know they can trust me. Seize the chances that are given to you and earn the trust back that you seem to have lost.

Clark Kent12316-Jun-15 4:54

Re: Leadership Cannot be Learned from Books

16-Jun-15 4:54

So true! I do plan on learning from others even though I don't have the title of "Lead".

I can make their experiences (failure or success) my own by studying why they did what they did in the circumstances they were in.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur

Steve Naidamast16-Jun-15 3:16

Steve Naidamast

16-Jun-15 3:16

I am sorry to hear about your experience. However, you should be consoled to know that this experience is very common.

As one who has been in the field for over 41 years I have led a number of small and medium sized teams technically. I have also taught technology classes in corporate environments.
I am also very well experienced in the politics of business, especially in IT.

First and foremost, there is no such thing as "leadership" in the corporate environment; there is management and the two are very different animals. Leadership cannot be learned or taught as it is something that is inherent to the person; you are someone people want to follow or you are not. It is a matter of personality.

Leadership" is something where your people will stand by you no matter what. That will never happen in business unless you are extremely lucky with a very rare group of people.

When your supposed mentor turned on you and told you to get things done, this was a reflection of what he expected of you as a "manager" not a leader. This attitude is rife in the IT profession at all levels where the term "leadership" is just a term for ego-centric managers to toss about.

You want to be a leader in IT than go out and be one! Build your own company where the people you hire want to work there and work with you. Treat them as equals and fairly but keeping in mind that you are the head of the organization and it is an organization that you created not only to produce a product of quality of excellence but one in which changes the sociological dynamic where people working there can enjoy it secure in the knowledge that the organization is there to take care of them as much as they are expected to take care of it. That is leadership!

The rest is just business as usual...

Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com

Re: Leadership Cannot be Learned from Books

Clark Kent12316-Jun-15 5:12

16-Jun-15 5:12

Quote:
However, you should be consoled to know that this experience is very common.

Wow, I didn't know that.

Quote:
When your supposed mentor turned on you and told you to get things done, this was a reflection of what he expected of you as a "manager" not a leader. This attitude is rife in the IT profession at all levels where the term "leadership" is just a term for ego-centric managers to toss about.

I think your right about that. As you mentioned my view of leadership is people wanting to follow you. Maybe it's personality I don't know, but I have to take your word on it.

Quote:
You want to be a leader in IT than go out and be one! Build your own company...

That's the reason why I am seeking leadership roles is I already started my own company. Well, I have purchased my own LLC 2 years back, but I want to transition from consultant to owner if you get my meaning. My goal is not seeking the title of "CEO" or something to that affect, but rather to create a community to make a product in a positive environment. I know this is possible because my previous employment did this quite well to have high morale within the company. For me this is just wishful thinking at the moment and the proof is in the pudding as the expression goes. I want to learn "leadership" from professionals so I can take what works and apply them to my business. I really do take this seriously, because this means that much to me.

I will do my best to learn the differences between managing and leadership as you have stated.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur

Harrison Pratt16-Jun-15 4:12

Harrison Pratt

16-Jun-15 4:12

A few thoughts:

* Maybe you weren't leading fast enough.
* Maybe you weren't leading in the direction your supervisor wanted the team to go.
* Maybe you weren't keeping your supervisor up to date on problems that can't be solved with "simple application of more motivation."
* Maybe your supervisor is getting heat from his/her supervisor because your team isn't delivering.
* Maybe you supervisor read an article on managing software development and is adopting a new-to-him/her management philosophy (HORROR!)
* The nature of the person who replaced you will tell you why you were demoted. If it's an outside hire, then there may be a perception that the whole project is in trouble.
* Maybe it's not about you, it's about your salary and eliminating "unnecessary" management costs. Has your supervisor been talking about LEAN management techniques lately?

Best of luck.

Kirk 1038982116-Jun-15 4:19

Kirk 10389821

16-Jun-15 4:19

It is only feedback.
This situation is akin to working on code for hours, and then compiling and finding you have some syntax errors. Or some logic bombs that need to be addressed.

If you run away from the computer because it did not do what you wanted/expected, you would fail. But we dig in, find out what happened, and fix it.

In this case, you may never lead at this company again. But it does not sound like you were completely ready. I usually end up leading in a lot of positions as it is my nature to lead. When I have no idea what to do, I gladly follow.

In your case, I would recommend reviewing your skill set at leading. And reviewing the books on management and leading others that you found valuable. I recommend these two books a lot.
- One Minute Manager (my first book on how to manage people, and how NOT to manage people)
- Execution by Larry Bossidy (A book about getting things done)

For me, leading is about:
- People
- Environment
- Goals

People always come first. Goals often come from outside, and the environment is all you can control. Create the right environment that encourages, rewards and drives the people (happily) towards the goals...

With that said. I feel you have to EARN a leadership position.
Don't just look for mentors... Become a mentor! I always take the time to mentor others,
it makes me better. It reminds me where people are at, and to keep people first.

Good Luck!

patbob16-Jun-15 4:42

patbob

16-Jun-15 4:42

I wouldn't give up on your goal, but I would take some time to watch others that are successful in that leadership role and understand where you went wrong. You won't get a second chance under that supervisor, so if you decide to pursue your leadership goal, it's time to move on. Besides, you might end up working for someone who is interested in mentoring you into the position.

We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

SeattleC++16-Jun-15 6:18

SeattleC++

16-Jun-15 6:18

I always spend time in reflection when I am demoted or let go. (Yeah, it happens over a long career). It is feedback on my performance that cannot be denied. I look for root causes. Guess it's the geek in me. You're doing well to take a little time out to think.

There are senior managers who manage by wishing. They put a line manager in charge of a team and expect that team to perform. If they expect performance to a fixed deadline and don't want to hear about scope-creep, discovered work, etc., they are managing by wish. If the line manager is not in a position to grant their wishes, they replace them, because you have to kiss a whole lot of frogs if you expect one to magically turn into a prince.

In my darker days, I refer to this as the "Darth Vader School of Management" after the way Mr Vader promotes his admirals, by crushing the windpipe of the former admiral and casting his lifeless body aside, then pointing a gauntleted hand at another and saying "Congratulations on your promotion...Admiral".

We learn more by failure than by success. You can probably think of things you should have done differently. Do these things next time. One additional question to ask yourself is, were you happy in your leadership role? If you were, then it's worth trying to get another lead role. If not, then why are you wasting your time? You escaaped. Celebrate.

Clark Kent12316-Jun-15 9:57

16-Jun-15 9:57

Great way to look at it. Yes, I did escape and in a sense I am celebrating. Glad it's not just me who uses his geekyness to analyze the outcome and to do things differently. Albert Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting something different to happen. There are a few things that I would like to do differently next time if I have the opportunity.

I appreciate your outlook and I must say your Darth Vader analogy sometimes feels true. Leading by fear is not something I aspire to be. Not sure if you have seen IMDB: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes[^] movie. Just in case you have not one thing I most enjoyed about the movie was the leadership role of Caesar (Andy Serkis) in comparision to Dreyfus (Gary Oldman). I guess that's what I would consider an ideal leader to be, but it's just a movie.

Quote:
We learn more by failure than by success.

You're abosutely right pleasure and pain are great motivators.

Thanks for giving me more food for thought. Appreciate the words of encouragement and your perspective.

"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur

wichogt16-Jun-15 6:29

wichogt

16-Jun-15 6:29

Hello Clark Kent123, Im sorry to hear about that...

Any way you should be happy for what you have acomplished.

Every fall is an opportunity to learn and an opportunity for personal grow, if you learn from your mistakes, you will be a better person for your next job!

Clark Kent12316-Jun-15 9:59

16-Jun-15 9:59

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Albert Enstein once said that a person who has never failed has never tried. Yes, I did try and I learned so much from this experience. Well, here is to the future of more tries and hopefully less failures. Smile | :)

Thanks!

"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur

MillJe16-Jun-15 8:32

MillJe

16-Jun-15 8:32

Leadership requires that you learn from your successes and failures. Failures definitely hurt, but know that everyone fails.

Here are some resources that I hope you will find useful:

A great blog article on different levels of maturity in software development:
http://mattbriggs.net/blog/2015/06/01/the-role-of-a-senior-developer/

A great book on technical team dynamics:
http://www.amazon.com/Team-Geek-Software-Developers-Working/dp/1449302440

Your leaders are looking to you to as a force-multiplier. They need leaders who can get stuff done for them. If you are taking up more of their time than it takes them to accomplish the work themselves then you are a liability rather than an asset. If you need more mentoring time than your boss can afford, seek out other sources such as meetups and user groups. Try to look through your boss's eyes and make his life easier rather than more difficult.

Cheers.

jmanuel2816-Jun-15 9:15

jmanuel28

16-Jun-15 9:15

Well, it's hard to read, but there's a post from Michael O. Church, in which he explains why it's not good to think about that mentor you mentioned, there are some inconvenient truths in it, but it changed my vision completely, so I think it'll be worth for you to read it.

The post is here [^]

Heart attack avoided...

charlieg15-Jun-15 1:56

charlieg

15-Jun-15 1:56

I image my main development laptop drive (512GB SSD) weekly. Been doing so for years, never an issue. Saturday morning I did so, but had to hit the road for a daughter delivery (about a 6 hour drive one way), so didn't get back until Sunday evening.

Plugged in the SSD copy - INVALID PARTITION TABLE. Hmmm | :|

Swapped in the main SSD - INVALID PARTITION TABLE. OMG | :OMG:

Insert adult beverage here, breath into paper back... web searches on my phone... For some inexplicable reason, the BIOS decided to boot off of the internal SSD card I use for storage. Pick the right boot device and I'm back working. D'Oh! | :doh:

Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...

"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759

Gittum15-Jun-15 2:07

Gittum

15-Jun-15 2:07

Sometimes small problems look like serious. Patience helps to find out the root of the problem, whether it is deep or shallow!

Ron Anders15-Jun-15 2:08

Ron Anders

15-Jun-15 2:08

That's why it's called Bios.

There are times it can send you into the Biosphere. Mad | :mad:

modified 15-Jun-15 8:54am.

HobbyProggy15-Jun-15 2:50

HobbyProggy

15-Jun-15 2:50

Ron Anders wrote:
it's call Bios

Bullsh*t is our system

if(this.signature != "")
{
    MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
    MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}

snorkie15-Jun-15 3:24

snorkie

15-Jun-15 3:24

If I had an adult beverage every time something went wrong programming, ~~I wouldn't have a liver!~~ I would have to change my name to Naggy.

Hogan