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Chris Maunder wrote: Discuss.
You should have stayed in Australia.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Please send CARE package STOP Morale plummeting STOP Can't last much longer STOP
cheers
Chris Maunder
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So...that's Castlemaine, Bundy, Vegemite, and a box of killer spiders? 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Chris Maunder wrote: Starbucks coffee is an affront to all things good about coffee
FTFY!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Last one closed in 2003 here...
As today - after a hit of the 5 NIS coffee campaign - you can buy a very good coffee (according those drink that stuff) for about $1.3...How much Starbucks cost?
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Cost of coffee varies, depending upon location (rent surely rolled in - cost of living, maybe). From what I've observed, the real cost of coffee, not 'a cup', but comparing true volume:volume is pretty much the same at Starbucks as elsewhere. That not taking into account that the amount of coffee per unit volume is so much higher at Starbucks than the 'bargain' coffee (Dunkin Donuts, McDonalds, etc.).
Compared to a local coffee shop in my 'town', at Starbucks, the cost is slightly lower, the beverage volume larger, and the service better (this last one can be untrue during local special events and beautiful summer beach weekends).
Israel is heavily laden with coffee-production locations that produce real coffee - it would be hard, indeed, to compete. Everyplace seems to produce coffee on a per-cup basis. I was even looking for some on an Egged bus.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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What exactly do you not like about them? I like their coffee, but not the foo-foo drinks.
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In all seriousness, and with respect to the company as a whole (their branding, their social efforts, their consistency etc etc) I find the coffee weak and bitter.
North America seems to have a fascination with coffee bean cremation. Even local cafes in Toronto often start out smooth, full bodied, and with an excellent aftertaste, and then soon enough the roast turns darker and more bitter until you're back to the norm: a coffee that has the subtlety burned out of it.
The other issue is that they never seem to be able to get a decent microfosm going. Get it right and it makes the coffee smoother and sweeter. Instead they scorch the milk and break down the goodness. It really makes a huge difference.
(Caveat here is I'm talking about espresso based drinks, not the coffee-through-a-wet-rag filter coffee. )
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I see.
My sophistication in such matters, is lacking. 
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Slacker007 wrote: My sophistication in such matters, is lacking
Welcome to the club. I find the whole discussion rather amusing. Coffee is a brown non-carbonated drink with a small amount of sweetener and milk added, required for my brain to start up in the morning.
I've had coffee that tasted like each bean was quietly coaxed into releasing its flavor by the gentle hands of a virgin living on a mountaintop.
I've also had coffee that tasted like it had been used as motor oil in a 1947 Buick.
In both cases my powers of discrimination are at a minimum when I'm drinking it, so the subtleties are lost.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Well said, on so many levels. 
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Wrong on every imaginable count.
Coffee:
Most stores, at least in the US, are company stores. For that reason they discard and replace unsold coffee on schedule, not when it's all sold or too nasty. Usually, however, it's sold out first.Dark roasted - although those admittedly nasty light roasts were made available for those who used that as an excuse not to buy coffee thereThey use more coffee to make their coffee - never watery - and, much as some like the element of surprise, no mystery about the quality=reliably highI haven't bought a fancy mixed coffee beverage in years (that wasn't alcoholic) there or anyplace else.Environment:
Each Starbucks is different - usually with real furniture - the one nearest me has a fireplace.and their business model is to encourage people to linger over their coffee - making it easy to study, use laptops, etc., with free WiFi and electrical connectionsTheir planned niche is to make their place one of your comfort places - and there's nothing wrong with thatSocial Consciousness:
Part Time employees, a great many of them, earn vacation time, sick time, medical benefits, college tuition, etc., which is rare, indeed, in the US for a chain (especially q.v., Walmart, McDonalds, etc.)They were trend-setter in their coffee sourcing, getting the money directly into the hands of the growers when possible - and now it seems everyone's doing itEven their 'card' program - I don't have one, but apparently the changes reflect customer requests. A customer is now 'fully credited' for buying multiple items in a transaction, rather than 'per visit'. This would not be to my advantage, but it's clearly fairer.Now, they don't sh^t as sweetly as the whip-cream that tops many a beverage, and have made mistakes, but when it comes down to it, they're a reasonably socially responsible company. And they, at least in the US, are the ones who really popularized the concept of drinking real coffee instead of the traditional swill that used to pass for coffee.
Uh-Oh! There goes my CP account!
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The discussion is about he coffee, not the social responsibility or consistency. Consistently bad and catering to the lowest common denominator are awful things we need to avoid. Life is more exciting with a little inconsistency!
Besides, at 5am in the morning I'd probably buy from someone using baby seals as seat cushions if the coffee was good enough.
Sure, I'd feel terrible later on, but the coffee would get me through those bad moments.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Catering to the lowest common denominator is a way to insure safe mediocrity.* Consistency doesn't imply the LCD. Example: an organization I belong to arranged some early morning rehearsal for an event and supplied Coffee & Donuts from Dunkin' Donuts (These are individually owned franchises). The majority of the time the coffee was lousy and weak. Going to the idea of a local coffee house that near my home (frequented mostly by Mrs. Wife): I've found the coffee, which they roast themselves (serious about their coffee) sometimes well under par. I couldn't honestly say it was ever better than Starbucks: just a closer walk.
We don't disagree about good vs. bad coffee (and I truly despise weak coffee) - but Starbucks has become some sort of whipping boy. Maybe because it's a successful American company.
One thing about the remainder of my previous rant: I took you literally when you said "all things good about coffee" - thus my broad-band response
* I once saw something called "Hamburger, the Motion Picture[^]": one of the comments in the movie was addressing why people eat the stuff when they really don't like it that much. The reply was that they felt comfortable knowing what to expect and would rather be comfortable than taking a chance on getting something great with no guarantee they'd like what they tried. It's similar in the Former Soviet Union (a/k/a Russian Federation): The people were very uncomfortable, as a whole, with no one telling them what to do. Hence, Putin.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I agree consistency doesn't mean LCD. It seems to head that way, though.
And Dunkin' Donuts? Mate. That's wrong.
(Except my sister is addicted to coffee from that place. She's in rehab as we speak)
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Same applies to McDonalds and Hamburgers.
...or Budweiser and beer.
It's not meant to be/taste good, but to standardise. It's a brand; nothing more and nothing less.
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I drink my coffee at home in "turkish style". It means a tea spoon of milled coffee beans with hot water.![Java | [Coffee]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif)
So a coffee pot costs me about 5 cent per pot. 
Press F1 for help or google it.
Greetings from Germany
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At home (and one of the two offices where I allegedly work): Me Too!
It doesn't get any fresher.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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This stuff is usually referred to (at least when I've heard of it) as Israeli Mud Coffee. The mud is the tie in with Turkish coffee.
You want the beans ground that fine so that they form a firm cake at the bottom. Improves drinkability, especially to newcomers to the practice.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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What's to discuss.
vote with your wallet, don't go there.
When i have to have (rarely) coffee and there's nothing else in the area, than a SB, then I just get a simple expresso or a small latte.
I'd rather be phishing!
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It was 5AM and I needed a coffee and he only option in this establishment was Starbucks. It's unconscionable.
But yes: your strategy is sound. My mistake was that instead of grabbing a macchiato I went for a latte and it all went downhill from there. Michael Martin can attest to the dangers of a latte.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Explains your ire a bit: you didn't get coffee - you got a beverage that contained coffee. Putting that much milk into coffee is guaranteed to ruin its taste (even if it went through the digestive track of a civet cat[^]).
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Exactly. Coffee flavoured beverage.
Where's a civet cat when I need one.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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