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No, they are born with water wings to prevent them drowning...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Oh, is that what you call those things that you hold onto?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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That's what came to my mind as well....see
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okay, but how do your children push it through the seaweed, then ?
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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It was always nice to have other programmers around that you can bounce little issues off. Just doing solo programming for my own gratification now, I miss having other brains around that could help you come up with instant solutions for those niggling little problems you inevitably encounter.
The forums and QA are great, but have 2 main problems - quite often you are stuck until an answer is revealed, which can take a while, and also the context of the issue can be difficult to explain without a series of question and answers. I currently have one of these latter type problems, and I'm sure that bouncing it around would come up with a solution quick-smart. I can't really post the question, though, because covering all the areas that could be causing the problem would produce a question that was far too long, but not doing so would not provide sufficient information for it to be answered.
Does anyone know of any online places that could help with this type of situation? I googled it, but all that come up are pay-services that are well out of my financial scope.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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Why not try a starting question in QA? Even if you cannot give all the information you will probably get some feedback.
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Yeah, OK. I'll try giving as much pertinent info as possible without making the question too wordy.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: Even if you cannot give all the information you will probably get some feedback.
Like
Google is your friend
What have you tried
Show us your work
We don't do homework here
blah, blah, blah.
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Not if it's a proper question. And knowing Mick, I am sure it will be.
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Midi_Mick wrote: Does anyone know of any online places that could help with this type of situation?
I've always thought it would be fun to create a Code Project chat room or use some existing service, like Slack, specifically for a more realtime conversation that would theoretically handle well the issue of solo programmers (and others, of course!) that you bring up.
Marc
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In theory that was the idea behind Google Helpouts IIRC.
And if they can't get it to work and at least break even, then ...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OriginalGriff wrote: In theory that was the idea behind Google Helpouts IIRC.
Ah, too complicated.  I was thinking a simple (nothing is every simple) text-based chatting with a good code formatter. Videos, images, screen sharing, all that can be handled by other stuff. 
Marc
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I thought of that, too. Would have to limit it to members with a certain ranking or above to keep out the trolls, homework cheats and spammers/bots (look at QA to get an idea of the mess it could become otherwise).
I do miss that sort of interaction with peers, though, not only for problem solving, but also the "Oh look at this cool trick" aspect that doesn't warrant an article, or even the unrelated conversation that only another programmer would get that doesn't really belong in the lounge (the "you had to be there" type thing).
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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Quote: a Code Project chat room
yes, that would be great. Something parallel to "discussions" with Chat possibilities. I think all "non Chat" parts should remain like they are.
Bruno
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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I thought that was the idea behind CPs expert chat attempt. Not sure why it was withdrawn (I can think of 3 reasons it would fail).
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I used to have a stuffed toy on my desk when I worked from home. If I brick walled it on a problem I would try and explain it to the toy, talking through the problem often solved the issue even without the feedback.
The wife always looked at me funny and the kids used to snicker at me but it got the job done.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Quote: covering all the areas that could be causing the problem would produce a question that was far too long
To be honest: as long as you cannot wrap it up, you don't have a problem but you produce the problem. Not only in the virtual world but also in real life.
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Mick,
I ran across this, you might find value in it:
Inherent to the solution of any problem, is its statement.
The FACT that you struggle to succinctly write the problem out, boiled down to it's salient points is why the solution is not jumping out at you, and also why when you EXPLAIN it to someone else, the solutions come more readily.
I ran across this situation handling a hardware tape error, and having to write the re-sync logic without spoiling the master data file we were updating. Literally a hundred lines of pseudo code was reduced to 6 well placed lines. (tracking when we were and were not in sync -> Implying deletes were safe. Updates are always safe, inserts are always safe).
The magic was realizing that I only had to protect against ERRONEOUSLY deleting records that I was forced the skip, once I do an insert or an update, than any sync error is fixed.
Prior to making it that simple, it seemed like a much harder problem to solve, and was...
So, the ART of stating the problem will help lead you and others to the solution faster.
Also, how many times after you explain it, does the other person say "so it's like X, so why can't we do Y"... Changing the type/flavor of the problem to an easier to solve/recognize problem... Same thing...
HTH
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That is all very true 95% of the time. Doing this gives yourself a fresh pair of eyes, and lets you see the problem (and thus the possible solution) in a different way, and I practice this technique on a fairly regular basis. Taking it further, I don't think I've written an article or tip where better ways of doing things have not jumped out at me and called me a bloody idiot, which is very much the same process.
However, the other 5% comes from one's own limited knowledge and experiences, and being able to bounce those may just trigger the experiences of someone else that you can cash in on. Working on my own, I have had to try to experiment and/or refactor code in order to solve these issues (which I am doing now for my current issue).
You'll find I have not posted many QA or forum questions over the last couple of years, but most of the ones that I have posted have not received a suitable answer. This just means they are hard. It is for that type of question that I believe the immediate banter could be of some use - it generally was when I was working in the team environment. There was generally someone that was able to say "what if you tried...?" or "I've seen something like that before". That sort of response normally came after a period of communication - not by just spelling out the issue.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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Mick,
Yes, I agree. I am fortunate to have a friend since Kindergarten that is a techie, with a High IQ, and a solid memory (Imagine talking about GPS coordinates, and he rattles off a box in the range you are using for an example, LOL).
I meet him at the Pub every week to solve the worlds problems, and usually pickup the tab.
We do the kind of thing, for each other, all the time. After we distill it down, we will converse over it until something pops...
I suggest you reach back to some previous co-workers, or reach out to others. Join a user group and make a friend who can double as a sounding board. (Just don't be one sided about it. I always take my friends calls. He sees every tree in the forest, my gift is discerning the type of forests).
And finally, email me. I have TeamViewer and GoToMeeting... "I'll be your daisy" (Doc Holliday by Val Kilmer)...
We can work out a date/time... C# isn't my strongest language, but problem solving and analysis are my strongest points.
HTH,
Kirk Out!
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I think what both of you are describing is:
Rubber duck debugging - Wikipedia[^]
...it's interesting when it happens, and it happens often; the very act of actively explaining the problem out loud tends to lead you to the solution, without the other person (or rubber duck) having to say a word!
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Have you tried researching StackOverflow?
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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I have, but I have found google actually does better, and returns relevant stack overflow threads anyway. I do try the MSDN forums, and have had success there before.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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A chat facility to find peers to help would be awesome, if
- The peers were not all n00bs. Honestly, the problem with asking a question on CodeProject is when you know more already than most of the respondants do. That could be handled with reputation, I suppose.
- The peers had sufficiently specialized knowledge. Doesn't matter how much Java or HTML you know, you won't be able to handle my advanced C++ question.
- There need to be enough peers to find someone to chat with, but not so many that the various conversational threads became confused.
This sounds just like CodeProject is already. Only, maybe a new, more ephemeral category of CodeProject for working out problems interactively. But I'm still not sure how different it would be to the existing CodeProject.
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