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You know, I think it's time I read that book.
Jeremy Falcon
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Maybe we should be paid by the number of legs we have. Two legs good. Four legs better...
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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Perhaps I need to alter my profession and become 'Leg Implant Consultant' (LIC). Could be a substantial income base 'afoot'!
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Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy.
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They're going to make everything fair.
Everything. Fair.
Everyone will have a house by the sea.
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The point of start-up companies is to test "the way things have always been done" and this is one more thing for them to test.
Maybe they will suffer for it, maybe they will profit from it - either way it will be actual objective data.
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Duncan Edwards Jones wrote: it will be actual objective data.
I think everything starts out that way.
Very little ends up that way, unfortunately.
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They are not public and aren't widely discussed, only between coworkers who trust a lot each other and often on single points of the salary (for example the compensation of non competition pacts) and not the whole lot.
That's exactly because it's extremely easy to spawn revolts or bitterness and create a darker workplace.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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Grades, usually related to designation, are known to all, but not the salaries.
Each grade has a range of salaries. I have heard that the lowest salary of a particular grade is, more often than not, lesser than the highest salary of a lower grade.
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Amarnath S wrote: I have heard that the lowest salary of a particular grade is, more often than not, lesser than the highest salary of a lower grade.
Jeremy Falcon
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Each place I worked, there were job categories or titles and levels, each category and level had a lower and upper range.. your salary was somewhere in there.
You were told, or not, what your range was and what your salary was.
If you chose to divulge that, that's up to you.
In theory, your merit increase was based on an annual performance review, but, because only 'x' number of dollars was available to spread around, your review was largely based on what compensation you would receive - not on your work.
At my current position, it seems the talent pool is large enough to actually have a realistic performance review and associated merit increase.
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25 years ago, I worked for a well known company that did that. Every year, you'd also get a guaranteed raise, but if that raise crossed the upper threshold of the range, you were usually laid off.
(Our theory became that the company believed that you were supposed to get your new title before your salary crossed that limit and if not, then you were just an unmotivated employee taking advantage of automatic raises. I lost a guy on my team to this--he ended up at a now notorious company and eventually made bank on stock options.)
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As far as I'm concerned, all of my financial information is confidential. Other than myself, the only three entities that have full knowledge are (in descending order of importance) my wife, the tax authorities, and God. 
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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I work for a government entity and that makes my salary (and everyone else's) public record that can be requested at any time.
I think there are people who work for the money and and people who work for the work (because they love what they do). The ones who work for the money never stick around long.
Brent
Brent
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Knowing someone else's salary is not good. It most certainly will cause resentment and toxic work relationships - especially if you make less than someone else and you do more work than this person or out perform this person.
If you work Government then it is difficult not to know someone's grade/level, but still you don't know "exactly" the salary.
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In short, with the world we live in, it's best to keep that under wraps. Unless everyone knew each other's salary then that would be ok (psychologically speaking), but I doubt that will ever happen in our lifetime. Anyway, for some people to know and not others creates the problem of imbalance.
If nobody ever talked about things, even sensitive subjects like money, then nobody would ever learn anything past what their parents taught them. Society would never grow that way. Also, I find the better you get with money the less of a sensitive subject it is. It's only those without it that flip out all the time over it. So in short, communication is always good in the long term. Maybe not so much in the short term. It's like having to break up with someone who's no good for you. It sucks in the short term. Long term you're better off. In this case, the long term is learning better about your worth while the short term may mean quitting, etc.
I know for me, finding out more of this information has been useful. It's helped me to better see where my parents have stopped growing in life. They have their own idea of what a "good" salary is, which may or may not reflect anything accurate to our lives.
YMMW
Jeremy Falcon
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I was told that "we do not discuss salaries".
I told them not to worry, I was just as ashamed of it as they were. 
"Abstract art? A product of the untalented, sold by the unprincipled to the utterly bewildered."
Al Capp
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Ha.
I haven't had a confidential salary since 1984.
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Honestly, I don't get the brouhaha about knowing other people's salaries.
Especially in tech, I think sharing this information should be mandatory.
It would remove lots of bias, especially towards women.
Also, it's interesting to note that if a company thinks that this will create discontent among the employees maybe they're not paying those employees right.
Sure, there will be the odd ones who think that they're being underpaid and really aren't, but if the salaries were shown then those outliers would quite quickly be identified as such.
And then, there's another thing: maybe you have a lower starting salary but you have better benefits.
So... I think salaries should be made transparent
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Seems like something that's going to work in theory, but not in practice.
In some theoretical world, an organization can demonstrably show that people who provide more value are compensated better.
In the real world, everybody has an ego and thinks they're a rock star. They will question the value data. "What I'm doing is way better than what Bob's doing, and Bob gets paid more."
Don't hate Bob because he's a better negotiator.
I've been doing this a long time, and have come across very few manager types who have the willingness, ability, and data to evaluate value based on performance. Mostly, it's whoever's bitching the most, and everyone else might get a COLA-type raise.
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As an employer, this is a very touchy subject.
No two people are equal. Sometimes I have to pay more than I want to someone, and someone else is happy to work for less than I would have guessed.
Our rules are that you keep it confidential. But we are a SMALL company.
Everyone has an IDEA what the others probably make based on lifestyle.
But I agree, this NEVER ends well when everyone starts talking...
Why does this guy make soooo much? What? I am paid the lowest? (someone has to be).
Even worse. I had an old boss who paid himself LESS than all of us, and shared that willingly. As if a badge of honor. Of course, he owned the place, and took shareholders distribution whenever there was money he needed, or left over... But it was HIS company. That should be understood. It was just the presentation that NOBODY realized that was funny.
Do great work. Help others, attend to your weaknesses, and learn to talk to your bosses.
Dress for your next job. Set your goals and obtain them. It's an amazing world in the end!
And we are INCREDIBLY well paid...
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A great many take a cake to a social event (9)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Abundance
a bun = cake
dance = social event
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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Clearly far, far too easy!
You are up tomorrow.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Being easter an all my favourite easter quote - "Don't get hung up over Easter" Leon Russell - Mad Dogs and Englishmen
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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