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Forogar wrote: I have been married for well over a decade (or two, even) and yet my wife hasn't even considered replacing me since I can still do my job as well as ever I could. In fact, she says I have improved over the years (patches and upgrades, I suppose).
I'm not arguing with the points you make here, but ummmm... I was just wondering what you have for breakfast.
I'm retired. There's a nap for that...
- Harvey
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I have whatever my wife makes for me.
No arguments! 
...and I enjoy it!
or else 
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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So when a company improves its products and makes them more robust over time it's a cynical move for financial gain that should be criticised? Or is that only true of Microsoft? I mean if the latest iPhone or Linux distro was better and more secure than the last one we'd be making these criticisms against them too?
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Quote: when a company improves its products and makes them more robust over time
When did that happen? Just the opposite, in my opinion. I was hoping for so much with Windows 10, that they would basically just improve upon Windows 7 where necessary (not many places as far as desktops go), but instead they just did more of the Windows 8 madness marketing changes (not improvements) and made nearly everything worse and less friendly for desktop users. I am yet to find one actual, useful "improvement" from Win7 to Win10 (ignoring the abominable Win8, the best thing to do with it).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Well they rewrote the SMB implementation removing the bug that allowed malicious apps to spread through a network.
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Windows UWP apps are more secure than traditional Win32 apps, so they say. Sounds like an improvement to me.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Forogar is talking at cross-purposes. He's focusing on usability. Maybe it is less usable but it is also more secure (robust).
Kevin
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Robust doesn't necessarily mean secure. Robust means it doesn't break when you get it to do something it is supposed to do.
See the message elsewhere regarding the Calculator program that crashes if you select scientific mode![^]
It may or may not be more secure, that remains to be seen.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
modified 26-May-17 15:04pm.
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It probably would be an improvement if the UWP app didn't break when you tried to use it![^]
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
modified 26-May-17 15:04pm.
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Have you looked at their competitors recently, in terms of long-term support for their older offerings?
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Yeah, linux is continually updateable and you don't have to pull out your wallet to keep current.
My main beef is that they drop significant functionality with their upgrades, and generally change things gratuitously too much. Oh yeah and make you pay again for what you are forced to upgrade.
[Rant]Until 60 days ago, I had a Vista machine that I was perfectly happy with. I resisted upgrades because it was my main mail machine, and the Vista mail client supported POP3, which I use by choice; I do not want my mail in the cloud. I would have gone to Windows 7 but that mail client dropped POP3. Same with Windows 8 (which I would not have gone to anyhow), 8.x, 9 (whatever) and 10. I have now reluctantly gone to Win10 and use a third party mail client that I don't really like. I had to pay for the update, and now it seems I have to pay again for MS Office (and Visual Studio and a few other things). I resent all of these upgrade fees. I don't use any more MS Office functionality than was present in the very first version they came out with in the 1980s. There are no new features that I feel the need to pay for. Don't get me started on the ribbon.[/Rant]
I'm retired. There's a nap for that...
- Harvey
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H.Brydon wrote: Yeah, linux is continually updateable and you don't have to pull out your wallet to keep current.
Compare what "long-term support" means on the Linux side with anything Microsoft is doing.
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From my point of view it means that when you want to upgrade to the next version, you can for free without having to do a clean install or pay for new versions of existing apps that you already own.
I'm retired. There's a nap for that...
- Harvey
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H.Brydon wrote: From my point of view it means that when you want to upgrade to the next version, you can for free
So you're just expecting a free lunch in perpetuity?
H.Brydon wrote: without having to do a clean install
In-place upgrades have certainly been supported for a very, very long time. In fact I remember reading some article by some guy who, just for sh*t and giggles, installed Windows 3.1 in a VM, then upgraded it to 95, then 98, 2000, XP, Vista, and 7 (I think that was still the latest back then), just to see what settings would get preserved and what would get lost. At no point is there any requirement to clean install, unless you're moving from 32- to 64-bits, but then I'm pretty sure Linux offers no such upgrade option either. But I could obviously be wrong on that, given the number of distributions, I wouldn't be surprised if some did, others didn't.
H.Brydon wrote: or pay for new versions of existing apps that you already own.
That's up to the individual app vendors. I'm assuming since you're on this site, you're a software developer - does that include the apps you've written and selling yourself?
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dandy72 wrote: So you're just expecting a free lunch in perpetuity?
When it applies to personal safety (eg. auto recalls etc.) or security, ... YES
dandy72 wrote: In-place upgrades have certainly been supported for a very, very long time...
And they were supported for Vista on up, including Win7 to Win10, but they took that away. That is the operating system. Different story in some cases for other products. I'm talking here of things like MS Office, VisualStudio, which I use. I had to buy a newer MS Office and my VS is currently broken.
dandy72 wrote: That's up to the individual app vendors. I'm assuming since you're on this site, you're a software developer - does that include the apps you've written and selling yourself?
I am a software developer (somewhat, ... but retired now). My apps and work is all free, public domain. I've worked on WinVN (NASA), Raspberry Pi, Ubuntu, CppUnit and a bunch of others. All free, all OS independent (as much as can be).
I'm retired. There's a nap for that...
- Harvey
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I have already written what that reminds me of in the soapbox, so no metasoapboxing needed.
But I'm chaotic evil too.[^] 
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Proof (SFW image)
"It is easy to decipher extraterrestrial signals after deciphering Javascript and VB6 themselves.", ISanti[ ^]
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You know this won't end well... 
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Has anyone warned Poland?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Or Czechia? 
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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lol
British Humor at a glance. Are you one of those Monthly Pythons? 
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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No, there is something fawlty about me, just don't mention the war - I did once, but I think I got away with it...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Ever since the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, Germans on the move have been bad news.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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You mean because of this three tank hour Story?
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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