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Thanks for the article citation. Nevertheless, since Windows has the transition date tables mentioned in the article, and NTFS stores UTC times on disk, I see no reason that it shouldn't be fixed, even if doing so required a new switch. After all, said switch could be set in the DIRCMD environment variable.
David A. Gray
Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time
Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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Like the Unix linefeed mode support in Notepad that will be introduced after 30 years with the next Windows 10 version?
That will be enabled by default but can be disabled with a registry key.
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Keep in mind that MS just finally "discovered" Linux. 
David A. Gray
Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time
Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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Hmmmm,
Looking forward to you discovering File System Tunneling[^]. Report back and let us know what you've discovered.
Start your research here[^].
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
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Quarks, eh?
I didn't respond in the thread yesterday because I was using my phone to access my email, since the fiber cable to my house was down, due to a break in the last segment of the line. However, I managed to follow the link and read both articles, which were most intriguing.
Eventually, I'll probably delve into it more. Meanwhile, I've run some tests in assorted scripting languages, with mixed results. So far, I've tested the stat() function, as implemented in Perl and PHP. Next come JavaScript, in the Node CLI, and VBScript, and, finally, PowerShell, which I anticipate will mirror the C# program that put the nail in the coffin. Now that I've learned all this, I think the resulting article will be a third installment in the Time Zone Lab series that I started a couple of years ago.
David A. Gray
Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time
Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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David A. Gray wrote: So far, I've tested the stat() function, as implemented in Perl and PHP. Next come JavaScript, in the Node CLI, and VBScript, and, finally, PowerShell, which I anticipate will mirror the C# program that put the nail in the coffin. Now that I've learned all this, I think the resulting article will be a third installment in the Time Zone Lab series that I started a couple of years ago.
I expect that you will get the same results from Perl, PHP, Javascript, VBScript because all of those high-level languages will call into the GetFileAttributesEx Windows API to get file time stamps.
The C lib function _stat() and all 32 bit variants are forwarded to GetFileAttributes
The C lib function _stat64() and all 64 bit variants functions are forwarded to GetFileAttributesEx.
GetFileAttributes simply forwards to GetFileAttributesEx
Finally... GetFileAttributeEx calls into the NtQueryAttributesFile function[^] via a SYSCALL and then in kernelmode the request walks it's way through the filter drivers down to the filesystem driver.
You are basically testing NtQueryAttributesFile function multiple times from the Thirteenth Floor.
Those high level languages may format the date differently... but they are all getting the same timestamp from the filesystem layer.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
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The problem with that theory, which has already born fruit, is that all of those functions retrieve a UTC time stamp. The issue is what happens on the 12th floor when the runtime that got the ball rolling converts the returned time stamp to local time. The outcome depends on whether they take into account the actual date and the DST transition dates on either side of it. Some frameworks take the same dumb approach implemented by CMD.exe, which treats all times as if they were in the current transition (DST vs. Standard Time). So far, I've already found two other frameworks (Perl and VBScript) that take that naieve approach.
David A. Gray
Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time
Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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Hi,
There use to be some amazing articles on the internet back in the 1990's that had charts and listed all the differences between the programming languages and how the handle date/time conversions. I briefly searched but could not find those old articles. Even Dr. Dobbs[^] has retired.
I think it's a great idea to write an article about those differences. Looking forward to reading what you come up with.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
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How does PowerShell compare?
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I haven't gotten to PowerShell, per se. However, since it runs atop the .NET Framework, I expect it to exhibit the same (correct) behavior as my test program. Hence, between that and the fact that I seldom use PowerShell, I wasn't planning a separate evaluation of it.
David A. Gray
Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time
Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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even though I used their supported restart options. I'm not sure yet, but I think that MS has coded up a "reboot it anyway" feature.
Just curious if you Windows 10 users out there have managed to find away to stop this elephanting reboot crap.
Right now, you would not want me near the nuclear football... I have some targets in mind.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Um, certain updates that Microsoft makes to Windows, etc. require a reboot whether you like it or not. The alternative is to not use Windows. It really is not a big deal.
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Slacker007 wrote: s. It really is not a big deal.
Just wait until your phone does this. 
Or your car.
Oh wait no worries M$ doesn't have a phone.
Why any software company would think restarting any device at their convenience would be best for any user is beyond understanding. 
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It's past any sort of understanding. Windows 7 was rock solid for me, unless I got too happy with USB devices. Other than that, I might have had one blue screen per year. Windows 10 does two things that boggle the mind:
- the reboot issue. What the hell, lets just put in a bug to blue screen it.
- driver updates: this is a killer for laptop users.
I don't know what is wrong with Microsoft. They are tripling down on this foolishness. I'm already doing an audit on the s/w I use, looking for Linux based solutions (I live in the embedded world, so I might be able to do this). For the times I cannot avoid using MS, I'll put it in a VM.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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charlieg wrote: - driver updates: this is a killer for laptop users.
I know the pain whereof you speak. After months of my laptop rebooting I determined (with help from CP users) that my laptop was rebooting because M$ installed a driver for my wifi that would reboot my machine when the machine went into sleep mode.
The only way I could fix it was make sure my machine never goes into sleep mode. It hasn't rebooted since I did that.
I tried installing old drivers and M$ would re-install the new ones constantly. 
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raddevus wrote:
After months of my laptop rebooting I determined (with help from CP users) that my laptop was rebooting because M$ installed a driver for my wifi that would reboot my machine when the machine went into sleep mode.
The only way I could fix it was make sure my machine never goes into sleep mode. It hasn't rebooted since I did that.
You still owe me two beers. ![Beer | [beer]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif)
Plus the late fee.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
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See my reply to charlie. You, out of all people, should know how Windows updates and reboots work. 
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yes, I do understand and most of it is ok but there are just times when I've been in the middle of something, had to leave my machine and then M$ has rebooted my machine and I have a whole series of things to do to get back to the place where I was working.
Good discussion on this. I understand M$ has a challenge too, but the whole paradigm has shifted and Win users just aren't used to this behavior and it often feels like we do not own our own hardware.
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raddevus wrote: Just wait until your phone does this
raddevus wrote: no worries M$ doesn't have a phone.
Why, just last week, my Windows Phone reminded me that it needed to restart...I'm not surprised anymore. Yep, there's still a few WP owners out there! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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kmoorevs wrote: Yep, there's still a few WP owners out there!
All the way back in 2002 I had a great Viewsonic PocketPC running Windows PocketPC 2002.
It was really great. I could read ebooks on it (remember Microsoft .LIT and MS Reader? most likely you don't) many years before Kindle and Amazon.
My cubicle neighbor at the time had PocketPC via Dell which was also a phone. A PHONE!! Keep in mind that Apple did not release the iPhone until June 29, 2007.
It is crazy that M$ failed at this. They were like 5 years ahead and they still couldn't win.
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"It's not really a big deal."
Are you serious? I am staring at a panel that says "nag, don't reboot" (paraphrase). If Microsoft is going to reboot machines anyway, just say so, ffs.
I don't care how you want to polish the turd, it's still a turd.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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You know that you can control when Windows 10 does updates. Certain updates require a reboot, or your f***ing OS doesn't work. Your choice.
Like I said, what is the big deal? 
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Yeah, I saw your reply. I have no problem with updates, and yes, I know how to do them. But when you provide me an option and then ignore it, crashing all of my VMs and work in progress, it sort of pisses me off.
Besides, there's no f'ing reason to do this. None. If I delivered something like this to my customers, it would be a very chilly meeting to discuss why their production line went down.
Keep polishing the turd.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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charlieg wrote: Keep polishing the turd.
Not polishing the turd as much as living with the turd given to me, and making do. 
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