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Nelek4-Feb-21 1:55

4-Feb-21 1:55

I do kind of both.

The big part is in calmed mode for the long term. Dividends or ocasional sell and buy gain later or another thing.

But I have a small part too, that I allow me to get in speculation. It is money I don't need to live and won't hurt me more than in my own pride if I lose it.
And if I lose it, I will only allow me again to do such with money after a certain time (I set my own limit on 50€ a month, so if I lose 1000€ I wait 20 months until I can "dispose" of that amount for speculation again)

An yes... I already know too that every stock is a risk and that companies can go down every moment (see Wirecard or similars)

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
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W∴ Balboos, GHB4-Feb-21 2:02

W∴ Balboos, GHB

4-Feb-21 2:02

Nelek wrote:
so if WHEN I lose 1000€ I wait 20 months until I can "dispose" of that amount for speculation again)

FIFY

But at least you are aware of what you're involved in. My start wasn't stock but commodity options. Basically, I went to swim with the sharks. Like many, at first it seemed I couldn't lose. They giveth and they taketh away - and they taketh away a lot faster. Lots of lessons learned, and one of them (which you are implicitly acknowledging with your €50/month donation) is that it's basically a world-wide crap shoot for most of us and a cash cow for the wealthy.

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

Nelek4-Feb-21 2:08

4-Feb-21 2:08

W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:

But at least you are aware of what you're involved in.

I hope it too Smile | :)

But only one thing is sure... I still have A LOT to learn about it. But I have no hurry, I am not going professional on it.

W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
Like many, at first it seemed I couldn't lose.

I earned it soon too. I got caught with Wirecard... I could have lost almost 4k, but I managed to reduce it to 2,1k by being patient and rejoining when the sharks got in.

So far I still managed to end 2020 with small green numbers.

M.D.V.

Greg Utas4-Feb-21 2:11

Greg Utas

4-Feb-21 2:11

That explains it, all right. The commodities markets are infested with sharks and are rife with corruption. Not to mention that you're sometimes fighting the "official" sector and that the long-term trend for commodity prices is down, the result of technological improvements that lower their cost of production.

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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

W∴ Balboos, GHB4-Feb-21 2:19

W∴ Balboos, GHB

4-Feb-21 2:19

Actually, no. It's a loony bin with a big edge for those with the most money. Typical, in fact, of all gambling. Why do I say this?

After having my ass kicked by shorting sliver options I knew I"d have to "get back on bicycle" as soon as possible. I quickly turned around an oil contract and "won" back a few hundred dollars (and also knew to never short an option because that's like buy the future). This was during the Iran/Iraq war. I did other oil contracts and then Iran attacked and damaged an Iraqi oil tanker in the Persian Gulf. WOW, I thought. Golden days for my oil contract! No. It went down. Why? Because the anal-ists said (always ex post facto) that traders now feel the big governments will get involved and stabilize the oil market.

The reality is there is no real predictability in the market by any algorithm. The day that algorithm is developed is the day the markets end. Everyone will predict the same thing (because the algorithm works) and will want to do the same thing at the same time. None the less, there are always believers who never learn that the bigger money can hold out longer and, even when they don't control prices they can weather the down-turn storms whilst you cash out a loser.

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

Greg Utas4-Feb-21 1:58

Greg Utas

4-Feb-21 1:58

For most small investors, the problem is that they buy high and sell low. It's almost as simple as that. The "harvesting" of their portfolios is caused by their own psychology. They chase the latest hot thing and panic when the market corrects.

They can get harvested if they enter sell orders that are triggered to limit losses. These orders are visible and can cause deep pockets to initiate a selling burst that harvests those positions at bargain prices, after which they often buy back what they sold.

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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Nelek4-Feb-21 2:01

4-Feb-21 2:01

Greg Utas wrote:
that are triggered to limit losses. These orders are visible and can cause

That's why I don't use them. I use plain limit for a couple of days and when it is over I see how things are going and do another order myself.

In case of a big rise I might earn less, but in case of a fast down spiral, I won't get triggered and haev my time to re-think if I want to change my strategy or not.

M.D.V.

Greg Utas4-Feb-21 2:07

Greg Utas

4-Feb-21 2:07

It's often a good idea to limit your losses (or preserve your gains), and what you're doing is the right approach. There's no point in managing your own portfolio unless you're willing to put in a little time to monitor it. That said, it's easy to get whipsawed if you worry about declines too much. If there's no reason for the decline, such as bad news from the company or a stock that was quite overvalued, a decline can be a buying opportunity.

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Nelek4-Feb-21 2:10

4-Feb-21 2:10

Greg Utas wrote:
It's often a good idea to limit your losses (or preserve your gains)

But automatic tools can be fooled (as you said)

Greg Utas wrote:
There's no point in managing your own portfolio unless you're willing to put in a little time to monitor it.

Exactly

Greg Utas wrote:
uch as bad news from the company

wirecard

Greg Utas wrote:
a stock that was quite overvalued

Tesla

Greg Utas wrote:
a decline can be a buying opportunity.

Yeah... if you still trust that company to survive.

M.D.V.

W∴ Balboos, GHB4-Feb-21 2:12

W∴ Balboos, GHB

4-Feb-21 2:12

For your second point: I had gotten in on Amazon on the day of the IPO - not as an IPO person but a first day buyer. By the time the report came back I was down US$400. Well, I waited and eventually it started to rise so I put in (as you astutely noted) that stop-loss order. Sure enough, I was out in no time at all (made $800). Then I watched as it went up and split and went up and split . . . my 200 shares would have been worth US$250,000 before the first year was out - and if I held it until now I'd have my millions. But I didn't, did I? Dirty SOB's ! I need the money more than they do.

As for the panic? I haven't done that - but I have been hit by margin-calls. That's the equivalent of "panic selling on steroids". First, with silver futures, having shorted 10,000 ounces (=2 contracts). Other times included the various crashes, like 1987.

Interesting thing: if you have suggestion enabled on a google search bar and type in "market crash of", the list of dates is, well, impressive.

What I found as my primary weakness is not setting a sell price and sticking to it. So it goes up and I hope it will still rise - and it goes down. My philosophy, which I neglected all too often is as follows: YOU NEVER LOSE MONEY BY TAKING PROFITS. Discipline. I admit my failing.

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

I was sent this ...

OriginalGriff3-Feb-21 23:40

3-Feb-21 23:40

... An arial view of ancient Rome[^] Big Grin | :-D

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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Eddy Vluggen4-Feb-21 0:05

4-Feb-21 0:05

Did the colloseum grow? If at same distance, it should be same size.

Explain the joke for the slow ones.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

Nelek4-Feb-21 0:22

4-Feb-21 0:22

"Times New Roman" ?

M.D.V.

Eddy Vluggen4-Feb-21 0:26

4-Feb-21 0:26

That's like my ex-wife giving hints.

Never got any. Hence, "ex-wife". We not on Jeopardy.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

OriginalGriff4-Feb-21 0:45

4-Feb-21 0:45

Arial[^], Aerial[^], Times New Roman[^]

Eddy Vluggen4-Feb-21 0:56

4-Feb-21 0:56

Thanks for the hints. Let's divorce.

Aw, we not married. Why you giving hints, instead of explaining?

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

OriginalGriff4-Feb-21 2:52

4-Feb-21 2:52

Because every time you explain a joke, god^* kills a kitten ... Laugh | :laugh:

* Not your god, obviously. Some other god. And since only your god (whichever that may be, and I'm not judging) is real, all the others don't exist so all kittens are safe. Aw.

Nelek4-Feb-21 1:49

4-Feb-21 1:49

I didn't give a hint because I don't want to explain it to you.
I gave your the hint, because I don't understand it either, but I can imagine that it is related to that.

The only thing I could think of is the discrepancy on the font size when you compare arial and times new rowman.
Or some kind of pun / double meanings that I don't see because I am not native speaker.

Either way... take it easy Eddy... not all the people is willing to annoy / troll you on purpose

M.D.V.

Eddy Vluggen5-Feb-21 7:25

5-Feb-21 7:25

Nelek wrote:
Or some kind of pun / double meanings that I don't see because I am not native speaker.

Ditto; but it's from those kind of yokes you learn more about the language.

Nelek wrote:
Either way... take it easy Eddy...

Good advice.

Nelek wrote:
not all the people is willing to annoy / troll you on purpose

Maybe, two, three people tried and mad me a bit pissed; compare that to the support of 14 million members.

..but not understanding a simple (?) joke is frustrating.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

CPallini4-Feb-21 2:03

CPallini

4-Feb-21 2:03

At Times I feel like a New Roman! Laugh | :laugh:

"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto

Jacquers4-Feb-21 2:19

Jacquers

4-Feb-21 2:19

You are just a font of wisdom today.

Johnny J.4-Feb-21 3:03

Johnny J.

4-Feb-21 3:03

No Comic Sans? Sigh | :sigh:

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OriginalGriff4-Feb-21 3:16