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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: It is without the US you'd either have that (your) part of the world as part of the Third Reich or Satellites states of the Soviet Union.
Look up why we got the Marshall aid after WW2.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Look up why we got the Marshall aid after WW2
Is this the part (wikipedia) that upsets you about the Marshal Plan?
Quote: The Netherlands received US aid for economic recovery in the Netherlands Indies. However, in January 1949, the American government suspended this aid in response to the Dutch efforts to restore colonial rule in Indonesia during the Indonesian National Revolution, and it implicitly threatened to suspend Marshall aid to the Netherlands if the Dutch government continued to oppose the independence of Indonesia.[81]
Damn anti-imperialists !
Without US, you'd have been swallowed by Soviet Troops. Except for the UK, what part of Europe was even left? What the US got out of WW II: gold-star families.
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Is this the part (wikipedia) that upsets you about the Marshal Plan?
Not upset. You depend on us, and without, the "US" would not have been. They'd lost to the Soviet Union.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Without US, you'd have been swallowed by Soviet Troops
We wouldn't, stop pretending you are our "saviours".
Try history, or bloody basic economics.
Where all movies show you as our liberators, you didn't want to get involved in WW2, tried to be neutral.
And now, we paying NATO for an enemy that doesn't exist.
The problem is American warfare. Never declared war, but not a year goes by that they not in a war.
I love 'muricans. Explained me NY pizza and Texan BBQ. There's no folk that gives more. But your military is an abomination, and part of the Drake-equation. And the world resists. If you confused about why, learn basic psychology.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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In no particular order:
Eddy Vluggen wrote: And now, we paying NATO for an enemy that doesn't exist.
First, of course, those living in the Ukrain would tent to differ. Those in Georgia, too. As a start. Meanwhile, if anyone profited from NATO it's you. US troops stationed in Europe allowed you to have smaller armies (saves money) and put those people to productive work (make money). For the majority of you, you've been living off the welfare of my taxes all your lives. Just in case you haven't noticed: perestroika and glasnost are dead.Eddy Vluggen wrote: Where all movies show you as our liberators, you didn't want to get involved in WW2, tried to be neutral.
Absolutely - you had those ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) ing Nazi on the run! Of course - that's what your current movies show, right?
Eddy Vluggen wrote: The problem is American warfare. Never declared war, but not a year goes by that they not in a war.
and add to that your quote, worth a repeat at this juncture, Eddy Vluggen wrote: Where all movies show you as our liberators, you didn't want to get involved in WW2, tried to be neutral.
Apparently your viewpoint on the thing changes as is convenient. This is implicitly addressed below (vide post).
One thing about that which I hope cames to and an end: ing Europe sees a hot-spot and wants to know what us "Muricans" will do about it. Send your own children out to return in body bags. It's time you all grow up and take care of things yourself as energetically as you attack the huge "Murican" companies whenever your failed EU needs a few extra billion.
Really, not living in the UK, I saw BREXIT as a spectator sport. Now, however, seeing how you handle your own affairs - like getting COVID vaccines authorized - and those who wanted BREXIT are totally vindicated. You just love pronouncements and meetings and get-togethers. Sometimes, however, you need to do something that costs you . . . that lives up to the lofty perch you put yourselves on as leaders of pluralistic compassion and, well, we always see the same thing: Money Talks. Like Nord Stream. Scream about and condemn Putin's behavior, so long as doing something about it doesn't cost money. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
So, next time a crisis exists, marshal a vast "Army of the EU" and set things right with your forces of enlightened goodness. (which, by the way, is expensive - so I guess that won't be happening). Stop looking to us to spend, as they say, "Blood and Treasure" whilst you sit on the sidelines and cheer us on - and later on, those like yourself will then find reason to condemn.
Actually - let me some this all up from a person living in a country that, in my opinion, has a lot of repair work ahead of it by giving you some advice: Don't tell anyone else how to sh*t until you learn to wipe your own ass.
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Those the arguments we been taught in school; and you always have an array of arguments, and I welcome the time you spent in writing them down.
Still; this is CodeProject, not a history site and I don't want to repeat the same mistakes. If you'd like, and ehr, be'd willing, we could continue on private mail.
Your account allows for direct mails, mine not; so, I'd have to open before you get mail email-address. So, unless you post here "don't", I'll send my arguments in a few days. A few days are needed, because I sounded accusatory and (unrelated) need to update my resume. But not continuing this here.
Also would be open-minded, I might learn from another view. Can't learn anything if I just blindly repeat my own nonsense. You game?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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No particular reason not to keep this as lounge leisure.
In my quite a few years foraging on this planet I've been on the left and on the right. What I've learned is there's some wisdom to consume on both sides - but always there's the dress of pure Bullshit. The fringe seems to always have an excessive voice and maybe because they're willing, as fringe-dwellers, to put in that extra effort. One example, on the left (for your benefit) was when several of my (primary) friends joined "YSA" (Young Socialist Alliance). It turned them into little capitalists as the main topic of conversations was how many "subs" they sold. Subscriptions to their "party organ". From the inside they couldn't see it - funds were needed - ah, yes - always an excuse.
So - I find myself a left-wing conservative (or is that right-wing liberal?). Oddly, however, instead of getting along with more I find myself getting along with fewer.
So - your posts, as a whole, remind me of the teachings (at least) of the left-wing era, those who always found fault with everything done by "Amerika". If you look for something wrong with pretty much anything done by anyone you will find it. Surely the presentation of WW II, for example, was not how John Wayne depicted it - but Europe was defeated with the exception of the UK, which was going down the tubes. Japan attacked; US declared war on them; Germany, by treaty, was then obligated to declare war on the US. As I understand it, there was no joy in the Fatherland when that occurred (large population, huge resources out of bombing range, natural resource, huge industrial base, etc.). To the Germans, this was a bad move (something treaties love).
Look how the right (getting very recent) lied through their teeth to get us (and others) into Iraq. My argument, whilst the UN was looking for WMD was for US/UK intelligence to give them a site since they know they're there. Amongst the arguments was they were unwilling to compromise their agents. I knew then and there, before the first shot was fired, that they were lying. Result? Iran, their mortal enemy, was delighted and I figured we'd end up with Iran I and Iran II as a result. I never dreamed of ISIS.
As I've mentioned at other times, I make it my business to watch European news (DW, France24, BBC, etc.). One thing I noticed is their lying by omission (like everyone else) about the Middle East. It seems leaving out the negatives in the "palestinian narrative) and pretty much anything positive about Israel is a give (DW isn't as bad as most). Even the most recent, slipped in to tarnish their vaccination success, included the misleading information about "not giving palestinains" vaccinations or medical equipment and the usual apartheid claim. What's omitted is that the PA refused shipments of medical equipment (from UAE, I believe) because they came to Israel's airports without their permission, and as for vaccines? They wouldn't accept anything from Israel. Also, the terms of their (limited) autonomy is that they're in charge of their own health care system. You can be sure that the top officials all have everything they need. Meanwhile, by being unwilling to negotiate with Israel (making demands is not negotiating) and discovering that the longer they drag it out the better their traction with the EU, and elsewhere. The value of moving the US embassy to Jerusalem? Not that it was obey US Law and recognition of their capital but that it showed the PA that by doing nothing there will, at long last, be a price to pay. They had their chance (look it up) for almost 100% of their demands and rejected it. Even the EU governments are starting to notice they teach hate to maintain the horrid status quo - a great income for those at the top. And yes - I'm not impartial. I worked on a Kibbutz (a rather poor one) and you talk to people. Everyone would love to live in peace - they have better things to do with their time, money, and the lives of their children then live in a state of war. Look at their tech !
The point, though, is you are lied to as much by those you trust for information as those you dispose. It just a matter of personal taste.
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: No particular reason not to keep this as lounge leisure.
Wrote two long explanations; and had to agree more than disagree.
..but; "Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table"
Seems to want to reply to a nonexisting CP address.
Hmz; I could post my private email address and delete the post immediatly? That way you'd get a copy, without it being very long visible in the forums.
And half of the arguments are cultural and schooling. And part of it is Europe not being honest. So.. nothing new there.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I have occasional email contacts - initiated via the link on posts here in the lounge. I presume all such links work. Posting in the lounge helps me keep the tone down.
The answer to all things can be found below, in the tagline area: "Ravings en masse" link. Some of it will be of dubious interest to you. Other text may initiate profound life-changing events.
I'll preview the last entry for you:
Quote: Byword of the wealthy: "You can never have too much of more than you'll ever need." - December 8 2020 11:53 PM
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: initiated via the link on posts here in the lounge.
I replied over email since it seemed to allow that and seemed to work. Will be copying those replies later this day.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Some of it will be of dubious interest to you
All of them of interest. I need not agree, but all of them provide knowledge. And in the case I disagree, you provide arguments on why I should.
I'll put both responses into one. Will be a long read, but you had a lot to say. Respond at your leisure.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: I have occasional email contacts - initiated via the link on posts here in the lounge. I presume all such links work
Not "reply" from CP.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Posting in the lounge helps me keep the tone down.
I often react out of emotion, while looking for logic. But I'd not want you to tone down in private mails, just want your unredacted opinion.
And yes, cursing allowed if you need it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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In the age of the internet, "unredacted" is a dangerous path! When I am running for US President or head of EU, or Grand Emperor Lux Terra, I don't want anything being whipped out to f* me!
Non-Partisan Rant:
One thing it seems is that despite all the oh-so-humanitarian pronouncements, Asia, west of the Urals, hasn't really learned a thing from the World Wars. Meanwhile, the US is heading back towards polarization that will, if "they" gain enough power, follow the McCarthy Hearings era and those days when the KKK marched proudly in the streets of Washington DC. Russia? They've already headed well back towards the Soviet era. China's taking advantage of capitalist greed by out-capitalisting them. Socialism? Capitalism? Full circle from one to the other. Just make sure you're not at the bottom of the pile. Our natural instinct for survival, expressed as greed, wins every time.
Some "They" have not learned from history because, for those in the right positions, repeating it is very lucrative.
not an endorsement: next to 'reply', below, is 'email'
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Socialism? Capitalism? Full circle from one to the other.
Plato didn't have those names, and discouraged either.
One of the regulatory forms he didn't offer, how about humanitarism?
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: not an endorsement: next to 'reply', below, is 'email'
I did, a compilation of our last two emails. I wanted your opinion.
If that fails, I post my email and delete it; you should get a copy.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Others have used the email thing, below, with success.
Why doesn't it work for you is a question needing an answer.
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I sent a reply on both of your posts using the mail button; worked as a single post and no error message either.
eddyvluggen+fackspam@gmail.com
Don't include the spam part, it's a very simple filter. If you mail there, I have the address you used to sign up here and will reply. After the other conversation though; to me, that's more interesting. More emotions in this one, but would prefer an answer on the metals before we continue this.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: "Flying" across Europe and into Asia, via the live view camera on the ISS, the obvious hoax is all too evident. The separation between between the continent of Asia and the alleged continent of Europe is the Ural's.
A lot of history you choose to ignore there.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: A lot of history you choose to ignore there.
History doesn't really define land-masses associations with one another. Perhaps, in the ephemeral time scale of human nations it has some sort of relevance but for all their shouting and jumping up and down and wars and conquests the continents just don't seem to move.
Western Asia as its own continent? That came about in the era of belief in a "Flat Earth" - map makers from the time before pasta was brought to Italy and the discovery that their little plague ridden plot wasn't the center of the earth.
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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No language has casued me more grief in my 30+ year career than CSS. It is almost like some form of black magic, where you can never be 100% sure what a page will look like. Even for the simplest designs you have to allocate 4 hours, just to make sure it looks the same in all browsers.
Why the decision to write an enormously complex layout engine, and then keep adding more bloat to it every year? Why not let the page designer interact with the layout engine instead, as it is laying out the elements on the page? It could be done through JS calls, or even by writing simple math formulas into the CSS, that refer to the sizes of other elements. For example "the width of this element should be equal to half the width of that element". Then let the browser's layout engine simply be a multi variable equation solver.
End of rant.
Bjorn
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CSS the worst language? Surely not.
There is BrainF*ck, or worse - VB & Javascript!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Haters are going to hate.
I don't know much JavaScript, never worked in it.
But I have made a very nice living/career over the last 43 years with VB. 
All languages are just syntax. VB is a tool just like any other. If you misuse an axe bad things are going to happen to you.
I am sorry to learn that someone who does "Thought for the Day" could be such an elitist.
Oh well Nobody is perfect, including both of us. 
A lot of people bash things they don't understand, or use properly.
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It's not elitism, it's "On Error Resume Next". Any language which supports that should be strung up and whipped ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Just never use "On Error Resume Next" and turn on Options Explicit and Strict. Easy. I much prefer C#, but I spent years in VB and then VB.Net and never understood the hate. Still don't. If the hate is because of the capability of misusing it, I can do that in C# too. Or maybe it is because it has built-in settings that are questionable to non-VB users (Explicit and Strict)? Maybe I'm missing something. But I don't care as I don't use VB anymore (since 2005). I prefer C#'s syntax. On the other hand, if someone could explain the reason VB is so bad (without the hate), I would welcome the education. Send me a private message or point me to a well-written post.
Mike
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nothing wrong with VB.net, except MS decided to stop growing the language; about that time I decided to fully switch over to C#.
I worked in VB (classic) for years and got a lot done, it was a great way to get a quick UI working that worked. plenty of hooks to tie into the lower API of windows and c/c++ libraries. when .net came out, it was a no brainer to switch.
each language has it's strong points and weak points, but times change. a couple years ago I wouldn't have though you could use Rust for web dev but now we can with webassembly. I didn't think I would like javascript because of it's typeless programming, but have now found it's wonderful for web.
if it wasn't for Android, I'd never touch Java again though, just something about that language that I find painful. no offence to Java devs out there, it's just not my cup of tea.
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It could have been much, much worse:
The Languages Which Almost Became CSS - Eager Blog[^]
bjoernen wrote: Why the decision to ... keep adding more bloat to it every year?
Because without that "bloat", we'd still be stuck using tables and spacer gifs for layouts, and fiddling around with transparent gifs for rounded corners or drop shadows.
We wouldn't have tools like Grid Layout[^] or Flexbox[^]. We wouldn't have sticky positioning[^] or multi-column layout[^].
bjoernen wrote: Why not let the page designer interact with the layout engine instead, as it is laying out the elements on the page?
So now you've turned your four hour project into a sixteen hour project, because you have to write the code twice, and test it in all the different versions of the browser implementations of your new system, as well as all the browsers that don't support it. (It's already bad enough if you still need to support browsers which don't support modern CSS layout, but thankfully those are vanishingly rare these days.)
Plus every new browser needs to support both systems, since you can't reasonably expect every site on the internet to upgrade to your new system at all, let alone overnight. Which introduces more bloat, and more bugs, and more cross-browser inconsistencies.
Or, more succinctly: xkcd: Standards[^]
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Thanks for the link, interesting read.
If PSL96 had been implemented instead, CSS would be a lot easier. You simply express sizes of things in terms of sizes of other things. It would have resulted in a much smaller language, that most people could grasp. And people would create libraries of handy expressions that accomplish the very same things that flex and grid does today. With the huge difference that you can look at the code and see what happens. Right now it is just a back box that almost no one understands.
Browser support would be easier and more uniform, not harder, because there is a smaller feature set to implement.
Do you know of any other language where there is so low predictability of outcome? You basically spend your time trying 100 different tweaks until it looks right.
Bjorn
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Here's that BrainElephant one printing out it's own name:
++++[++++>---<]>-.---[----->+<]>-.+++[->+++<]>++.++++++++.+++++.--------.-[--->+<]>--.+[->+++<]>+.++++++++.
You can have that language & I'll keep my cascading style sheets thanks!
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