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I've worked with Indians too ... I trained them to do my job when the company I was working for at the time outsourced the entire department.
I was paid 60K (extra) to stay on and complete the 6 months of training ... so, no hard feelings. 
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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"How easy were they to train?" would be the first question that occurred to me.
I think outsourcing is often a bad idea, but not because of foreign developers so much as the challenges of managing a project over seas and also navigating often very different cultures and sometimes languages which makes communication and choreography a problem.
At the end of the day it trades shedding development costs and offloading the day to day mechanics of it with much more cost in terms of managing the project in such a way that it can be successful, and my experience is that most companies do not understand that, and their management is ill equipped to handle it, especially the first time.
It's a good way to make a project fail in an industry where failure is already all too common.
I think if you added up all of the hidden costs associated with outsourcing and stacked it up against the benefits, and then looked at the industry as a whole you'd find it does more harm than good, but I haven't run the numbers.
It's just a hunch.
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: "How easy were they to train?" would be the first question that occurred to me.
In my personal experience... usually hard, really hard. But not because of incompetence, what I observed was because of pure lazyness... if you are lucky and you find one that really wants to learn, then it is a pleasure, but still a bit hard, because we think in different ways.
One thing that I experienced is that they are damn good when it goes to repetitive processes. Once they have learnt it, they usually do it well, but in most of the cases don't expect alternative or logical thinking.
But, I have to say I didn't really worked with software developers or so, I worked with factory guys where we were the "experts" to teach or switch on new processes. What limits a bit the experiences horizon speaking about specialists.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I had previously documented the entire accounting system using multi-level interactive Visio diagrams ... the thing taught itself; I just sat beside them while they navigated (they flew in from India).
Needless to say, all "new" development stopped; they would be in support mode for the next x years.
Don't know where they are now ... might be converting to SAP.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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All updates; currently chugging at 26.7 Mb/s for a 35.88 GB game download. (It's cold out there)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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We must have the same internet package. And weather (it's snowing here!)
Do you play fallout 4? It's one of my favorite games because I can play against the game developers rather than the game itself.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I like the role-playing games (PlayStation and Fallout) but I like the faster pace of the real-time strategy games (XBox / PC and the Age of Empires franchise) just a wee bit better: one mistake can blow the whole game wide open.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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I have been having the same issue for almost a year now. I tracked down the the problem to windows 10, any version past 1809. what is happening here is win 10 is disabling internet traffic on some hidden parameters. It loses DNS, never comes back and tries to turn off the NIC even if you specifically state NOT to turn it off in power panel. I have a sat internet connection. Delays run 600ms to 1.2 sec turnaround and win 10 won't play with it. If I make a direct connection to my modem it's a little better, but fails miserably through any router, I tried 4 different models, same results.
On Downloads, I always get no more than 50kb/sec even though firewall on defender is supposedly off.
If I switch to an older win xp system, everything is fine and this nonsense goes away so clearly it is a win 10 problem microsoft refuses to acknowledge. Search web, many complaints on this with crap answers from them.
Time for windows to die and be replaced..IMHO.
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Did you have a pending update. Pending updates have always caused problems for Windows? If this was it then you as the system operator should take some of the blame for not ensuring you don't have pending updates.
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No, in fact it was an update that introduced the problem, meaning i had just installed the latest update.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Quote: The completed machine was announced to the public the evening of February 14, 1946
ENIAC - Wikipedia[^]
From the wiki article
Quote: Reliability
ENIAC used common octal-base radio tubes of the day; the decimal accumulators were made of 6SN7 flip-flops, while 6L7s, 6SJ7s, 6SA7s and 6AC7s were used in logic functions.[30] Numerous 6L6s and 6V6s served as line drivers to drive pulses through cables between rack assemblies.
Several tubes burned out almost every day, leaving ENIAC nonfunctional about half the time. Special high-reliability tubes were not available until 1948. Most of these failures, however, occurred during the warm-up and cool-down periods, when the tube heaters and cathodes were under the most thermal stress. Engineers reduced ENIAC's tube failures to the more acceptable rate of one tube every two days. According to an interview in 1989 with Eckert, "We had a tube fail about every two days and we could locate the problem within 15 minutes."[31] In 1954, the longest continuous period of operation without a failure was 116 hours—close to five days.
modified 27-Mar-21 21:01pm.
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Oh wow, it's a mobile computer! 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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modified 27-Mar-21 21:01pm.
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As long as it is not a BRAINIAC or a SKYNET... all good  
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I must protest, these are two of the most popular products in entertainment!
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I didn't like the work, and the pay didn't make up for it.
But more I did it because it was stressing me out.
Sometimes I wish I could deal with stress like I used to be able to. Development, like most work, has its stressful periods.
I'm pretty fragile these days though, and it doesn't take much for what's left of my marbles to spill out of the bag and go rolling around the floor. If I see myself redlining, or being so overwhelmed I'm about to shut down, I have to step back and reevaluate my life. If not I will have a breakdown. And breakdowns can land me in a hospital.
Luckily, I have some work that I am really in love with. It's still stressful sometimes but my client is easy to work with and understands my limits. 
So much of my life these days is about eliminating baggage and self-preservation, it's amazing I have time to code at all. 
I have to be very selective, but at least I'm resourceful. I don't know how I'd pull off any of this otherwise. But thank the universe for great clients, right? The only trick is finding them..
Real programmers use butterflies
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Looks like it was one of those "Client-Servant" relations 
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Quote: So much of my life these days is about eliminating baggage and self-preservation, it's amazing I have time to code at all.
Well, what do I know? I'd have guessed that so much of your life was spent coding that you didn't have any time for eliminating baggage or self-preservation!
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Everything I've produced here I loved every minute of or I wouldn't have done it.
When I'm writing for CP you know I'm taking a break from the parts of my life that are stressful.
All of it is a labor of love.
It's actually part of my self-preservation, contributing here. It's an outlet for my writing, and an excuse to create something *I* think is cool.
It's like Aesop Rock wrote:
Now we the American working population
Hate the fact that eight hours a day
Is wasted on chasing the dream of someone that isn't us
And we may not hate our jobs
But we hate jobs in general
That don't have to do with fighting our own causes
We the American working population
Hate the nine-to-five day-in day-out
When we'd rather be supporting ourselves
By being paid to perfect the pastimes
That we have harbored based solely on the fact
That it makes us smile if it sounds dope
It's the year of the silkworm
Everything I built burned yesterday
Let's display the purpose that these stilts serve
Elevate the spreading of the silk germ
Trying to weave a web but all that I believe in is dead
Nah brother, it's the year of the jackal
Saddle up on high horse
My torch forced Polaris embarrassed
Shackle up the hassle by the dooming legend marriage
I bought some new sneakers
I just hope my legacy matches
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: Development, like most work, has its stressful periods.
Good you have the option to drop it; as a "normal" employee, I don't have that option.
honey the codewitch wrote: I'm pretty fragile these days though, and it doesn't take much for what's left of my marbles to spill out of the bag and go rolling around the floor.
Never seen you break online. I did, regularly even.
honey the codewitch wrote: And breakdowns can land me in a hospital.
Or a police station.
honey the codewitch wrote: So much of my life these days is about eliminating baggage and self-preservation, it's amazing I have time to code at all.
Take a week off, and eliminate the baggage in bulk.
Spend the last day on code you just enjoy.
Whenever I was stressed out too much, a friend would take me out for "fun". Mostly dinner, because I don't like crowds. She'd order for three people, while we were two. Confused the heck out of the waiters. We need good times, to offset the bad days. Also, ordering wine for three people may have helped 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Good you have the option to drop it; as a "normal" employee, I don't have that option.
I wouldn't really have that option either except for the fact that I am not the primary breadwinner in my household. In fact, we don't rely on my income. All of it is "found money"
Because you know what happens when it's not? I lose it. I wind up psychotic from the stress.
It's not really good. It's just one of the side effects of living whilst mad. My crazy needs to be managed or it manages me.
My shrinkers are surprised I can work it all. Not working isn't an option for me though. I can't handle doing nothing. So it's a balancing act.
But yeah, I spend a lot of downtime doing things I love doing, in between actual work. It helps me hang on to my sanity. In fact, that's what the content I produce here is about. I loved every minute of it or I wouldn't have done it.
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: I wouldn't really have that option either except for the fact that I am not the primary breadwinner in my household. In fact, we don't rely on my income. All of it is "found money"
I was given a state-income in my teens. Never needed to work for income. It is not about money. Never was. Have worked, lots of companies.
honey the codewitch wrote: It's not really good. It's just one of the side effects of living whilst mad. My crazy needs to be managed or it manages me
Some of us need be a bit crazy.
That's my conclusion and it fits with evolution. Someone was crazy enough to smelt copper instead of hunting deer. You are that kind of person; we out hunting, you do the arcane stuff.
honey the codewitch wrote: My shrinkers are surprised I can work it all. Not working isn't an option for me though. I can't handle doing nothing. So it's a balancing act.
Doin' nothing gives too much time to think about other stuff than code. Without work, I start worrying about things I've no influence over. The work is a productive and positive distraction. And been told that I'm not allowed anymore to work "for free".
honey the codewitch wrote: But yeah, I spend a lot of downtime doing things I love doing, in between actual work. It helps me hang on to my sanity. In fact, that's what the content I produce here is about.
That makes CP more important to you than a "normal" dev; you need it as I do.
Take some time of. Spend quality time, go out for dinner. Spend time on being happy; and doesn't matter if you need the money; none can pay what you contribute here. You're teaching not just me, but of those 14 million some will learn too.
That's something that has no price. You teaching the next generation.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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