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The man was a genius - period. I know there are peeps here (we've talked about him over the years) that simply want to hate him for reasons I won't get into. But the man was a genius nonetheless and his life had more impact on the world than most.
And despite that speech being given after his diagnosis, we can still learn from it and the perspective it was given in. A truly wise man learns these things before his deathbed. Which means, he's giving us a gift and a chance to learn while we still have the most precious thing known to man - time.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: The man was a genius - period
Marketing genius, for sure, but on a technical basis, all props go to Woz, at least when Apple got started. He himself at least admitted to that.
So he was a great salesman, with a gift to convince people to buy whatever he's selling. Personally I've never bought into that, I don't let slick snake oil salesmen get the better of me. Sadly, I know some people who can barely pay the rent or their groceries, but they always have the latest iPhone, iPad, and iWatch.
But is Jobs a "pioneer" who "changed the world"? Given how society has changed since the introduction of smartphones, I'd say he changed the world alright, but I'm leaving out whether the change was for the betterment of humanity or not. I think you can already draw your own conclusions based on what little I've said.
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dandy72 wrote: Marketing genius, for sure, but on a technical basis, all props go to Woz, at least when Apple got started. He himself at least admitted to that.
That's the problem with devs... they incorrectly assume the only measurable way to be intelligent or contribute to something is via tech. Saying Jobs was a genius in no way takes away from Woz also being extremely gifted and talented. You're comparing apples to oranges.
And while I do recognize there would be no Apple without Woz, I can promise you there would be no Apple without Jobs. He provided motivation and vision and direction. All of which Woz lacked. And that's ok... it's called teamwork. But, let's stop trying to undermine Job's contributions. This conversation gets repeated over and over and over on CP because the typical dev can't see past their own bias and blinders.
Jeremy Falcon
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Right. I didn't say he was NOT a genius. I acknowledged he was a marketing genius, a skill I acknowledge is rare, I acknowledge I don't have, and don't want. Does that take anything away from him?
There's a lot more I'd love to say about him, but I agree to leave this for another day. Preferably one in the past.
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dandy72 wrote: Does that take anything away from him?
Common sense dude... if you can't have a chat about a topic without derailing from it with the implication that the brains lie elsewhere than the subject at hand... that does take away. Not sure why people on CP just can't say "oh dang, good point".
dandy72 wrote: There's a lot more I'd love to say about him, but I agree to leave this for another day. Preferably one in the past.
You've already said enough and distracted from a man giving a speech after he found out he has a terminal condition. You may wanna look inward bro.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: You've already said enough and distracted from a man giving a speech after he found out he has a terminal condition. You may wanna look inward bro.
This is Steve Jobs we're talking about, not the messiah. There's not much that can be said about him nowadays that will change my opinion of him.
[Edit]
Oh, and his pancreatic cancer was very much treatable when he was diagnosed. It only became terminal after he wasted months thinking he could cure himself using herbs.
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You missed the point. You’re acting inhumane just to argue. This is why I stopped visiting CP for years. And it also why I have nothing in common with a lot of peeps here.
Jeremy Falcon
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Ah, yes, the Church of Jobs, I forgot all about it, and the fact that it's blasphemous for some people to say anything less than stellar about him.
Sorry, but guys like him just bring out the worst in me.
I'm done if you are.
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I think you’re acting immature and ridiculous. You’re inhumane and hiding behind a fake screen name, like most little online warriors.
I don’t want you replying to me with this filth. I’m made it clear on CP more than once I’m tired of these immature replies.
Yet you lack self-awareness. So here you are wasting my time while you’re being inhumane.
Just leave me alone “dandy”. This is ridiculous the sheer amount of immaturity I have to endure just to be around people into tech.
Jeremy Falcon
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Y'know, I'm fine with the personal attacks, but I'll just point one thing out:
If you think I'm being "inhumane" because of words on a screen, words being exchanged in a conversation, online, you're really trivializing what happened to people who were actually subjected to inhumane treatment.
You don't have to "waste your time" or "endure" anything because of me. It's easy enough to stop a thread. I just wanted to make this one last point, as I had already said I was ready to put an end to this rather pointless conversation.
I'm curious to find out whether you are.
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You’re inhumane. One day, if you ever get cancer and give a profound speech I hope you never meet someone like you.
Until that time… leave me alone.
Jeremy Falcon
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dandy72 wrote: I'm curious to find out whether you are.
And of course he replied. You are not the only one he responds to in this manner.
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IKR?
I told him I was ready to put an end to this thread twice. He kept responding. Somehow I'm the one wasting his time but he's the one who kept the thread going.
He secretly enjoyed the conversation, no doubt about it.
[Edit]
And re-read the whole thread. He wasted no time to get onto the personal attack, apparently because of my blasphemy against St-Jobs...
It's a cult, when you care so much about someone you don't know, never met, and whose life you haven't affected in any way, shape or form.
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dandy72 wrote: He kept responding...He wasted no time to get onto the personal attack
Yep SOP.
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dandy72 wrote: Oh, and his pancreatic cancer was very much treatable when he was diagnosed.
Yep. So intelligent but not very wise.
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jschell wrote: So intelligent but not very wise.
It sure fit into his arrogance personality.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: That's the problem with devs... they incorrectly assume the only measurable way to be intelligent or contribute to something is via tech.
Seems that some managers make the same assumption. I was just reading a blog about this earlier today:
The Worst Programmer I Know
Steve Jobs was a micromanager, luckily he was good at it. 
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Totally agree some managers do. There are blind and foolish people all over.
My main beef with all of this isn’t that jobs was flawed. He was. Very much so. I probably wouldn’t want to work from him. Dunno. Never met him in person.
My beef is that on CP people never say anything positive. There’s always something hateful by someone… dude can’t even die of cancer without immature people here being hateful.
Jeremy Falcon
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I read these posts to learn something. Unfortunately, flaming others in posts is easier than sharing useful information and ideas. Thanks for not permitting a bad post to silence your replies. Steve Jobs accomplished something that nobody else can ever do. He created Apple. Others can create something like Apple, but not Apple.
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Oh btw… wasn’t referring to your post. This thread was already derailed.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jobs may have been a visionary (seeing possibilities eg ipod, mac, ipad and so on, and guiding others toward accomplishing them for him), but hardly a genius. That word has become so overworked now as to be approaching meaningless. Genius is so much more than above average intelligence.
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Btw, before you insult the intelligence of someone else, may wanna sure you don't double post. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Jobs may have been a visionary (seeing possibilities eg ipod, mac, ipad and so on, and guiding others toward accomplishing them for him), but hardly a genius. That word has become so overworked now as to be approaching meaningless. Genius is so much more than above average intelligence.
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Ok, then you go do what he did. See how easy it is.
Jeremy Falcon
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Accomplishing something challenging doesn't make you a genius. Nor does accomplishing something that would be beyond oneself.
As I wrote, the word is so overworked and misused it is becoming meaningless.
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