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I usually code in C++ but i think C# is pretty anyway sometime i feel i'm silly when i write
<br />
switch(n)<br />
{<br />
case 1:<br />
{<br />
break;<br />
}<br />
...<br />
}<br />
With C++ we have ft so we need "break" but with C#?! I gotta type b-r-e-a-k even in the default ! And default values in function parameters? I don't want to overload so much! Friends? Templates? Multiple inheritance? I think C# is VB with a pretty syntax...
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The lead programmers and Project Managers from MS, will tell you that Managed C++ is the way microsoft is shifting towards. (no im not joking).
C++ (Native or Managed) will still be used the most. But Microsoft is starting to lean towards Managed C++. I for one can understand. It has its ups and downs and im not gonna list them here.
But for anyone who is working for a company (Windows or Linux) you will definatly know that C/C++ is still going to be leading the industry for a while yet. ( just ask the president of Red Hat Linux).
Now i know this is supposed to be a thread on Windows Development so im sorry for the Linux comment. ( i am one of the rare people who prefer both equally ).
So overall you cant deny that C++ is still the most important for windows development, since Microsoft has directly addressed this themselves. (for a little proof: i direct you to the MSDN .NET Show @ http://www.msdn.microsoft.com/theshow/ )
Do not try, do or do not!
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BRAD ABRAMS: You're more productive for a variety of reasons. One is that we get rid of the plumbing code. In Win32 and COM apps and in other environments, there's a lot of setup code. I know that when I used to build Win32 apps, I would cut and paste the same kind of Windows handling code from one application to the other, and frankly I didn't even know what that code did, and that is a maintenance problem over time. So certainly that's an angle of productivity, is that we've essentially taken all that infrastructure and baked it right into the system.
Surely he should of been using a C++ framework, hey why not MFC? Dear me and this guy wrote the CLR?
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Norm I agree, when i heard him say that i almost burst out laughing.
I would have to say tho if you have done some *fun* projects with Managed C++, its
not as bad as you may think at first. But it is true and MS will tell you this also
that Managed C++ is (right now) slower than Native C++ code.
Also Norm, alot of windows programmers really do not know how to utilize MFC as much
as they could. For Win32 Dev. I love MFC, and im starting to like Managed C++ more
and more.
So really you must ask yourself, are you (In general) ready to change for the future?
If not, then its time you move onto another language that you are more comfortable
with. Thats the only advice I could give someone who is in that situation. 
But i hope current C++ programmers (for WIN32) keep on working in C++, and change
with it. Its an exciting time right now as a programmer, so many new technologies
to play with !
Do not try, do or do not!
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Signal-9 wrote:
Also Norm, alot of windows programmers really do not know how to utilize MFC as much
as they could. For Win32 Dev. I love MFC, and im starting to like Managed C++ more
and more.
I'm a keen fan of C#, it fit snuggly around the FCL, as for Managed C++, we have a design studio written with a lot of visual classes (MFC), STL and ATL, in the near future it would seem sensible it just flick the managed code swith /MC and start intraging with the FCL.
As for my comment I it merely sarcasm for the 'copy and paste' comment, no right minded programmer would cut and paste code (unless you're from camp VB).
And I agree with moving to the future, .net is not going away it's time to embrace it and not shun it.
Cheers.
Norm
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<quote>( i am one of the rare people who prefer both equally ).
I'm another one, and I for one do not to trade in my platform independent code for C# or 'managed C++'
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I have to admit that I can't see C language among choices, leaving it for 'others'. And 'others' is ~3% - only less than 3% of voters code in C? I wonder...
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Does Visual C++ (7.0 or 7.1) support the C99 Standard?
BuggyMax
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I don't know, I'm not using VC7 - but I suppose there are MS extension to language (almost any compiler vendor does it, correct?). I was talking about C language itself, not Visual C. Perhaps the poll author considered C as included in C++...
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There sure are a lot of Neo-Luddites in the programming world, sticking dogmatically to their favorite language, defending it beyond all bounds of reason.
I suspect that a truely elite professional programmer with any control over their circumstances would be skilled in many languages and see a language as merely a tool to get a job done and therefore select the best tool for the job.
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John Cardinal wrote:
There sure are a lot of Neo-Luddites in the programming world, sticking dogmatically to their favorite language, defending it beyond all bounds of reason.
You have to think of things from a different perspective as well. Why do people defend a language that they might call their "favorite"? Some might do that for the reason that you described. But I believe that there may be a better reason behind a certain defiance towards other languages. As is to be expected, different people develop different types of programs, each different type "demanding" a different kind of language or "tool" for the job. If a programmer only develops a certain type of program, chances are he/she is going to naturally see the language that he/she has been using for those projects as "the" tool for the job, especially if no limits have been seen in the language itself. I have always believed in the old saying, "If it is not broke, don't fix it." Well, that statement applies here too. Not one programming language is the ultimate one. That is apparent. But people are in reason to support a language if it successfully helps them reach their goals with no overwhelming weaknesses. So when people say "favorite" in regard to a programming language, maybe they mean the best language (in their opinion, since everyone has the right to one) for their type of project development.
I for one have choosen C++ for my projects because I have looked around the table and experimented with languages like C# and Visual Basic and I return to C++ because of issues like having more control of memory and having a cross-platform capability. C# and Visual Basic along with other languages out there are good in their own right and the best choice for certain jobs. I am not arguing that one bit. But not everyone is working on the same type of projects.
John Cardinal wrote:
There sure are a lot of Neo-Luddites in the programming world, ... I suspect that a truely elite professional programmer with any control over their circumstances would be skilled in many languages and see a language as merely a tool to get a job done and therefore select the best tool for the job.
I also would suspect that a truly elite professional programmer would not start calling others names because they have a different opinion than he/she does.
BNEACETP
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I personally thought at one time or another in my programming life that any of the following languages were most important and I would be programming in them for many many years to come:
6502 Assembler
8086, 8088 etc Assembly
JCL
Cobol
etc.
A little perspective will show that whatever seems to be the most important now will more than likely be nothing more than a memory in the fullness of time.
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John Cardinal wrote:
C++ is on the way out, slowly but surely
Sure, even newer languages like C# are. 
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bneacetp wrote:
C++ is on the way out, slowly but surely
Sure, even newer languages like C# are.
Yup, however there are sound business reasons why I suspect it will supersede c++ in usage at some point.
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"I don't like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out"
This was said by a manager around 1962 about a group known as Beatles...
Bunburry
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Realy? That's interesting.
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Possibly, but C++ will still be around for a long, long time. I think C++ is "on the way out" only if all programming languages as we know them are on their way out and will be superceded by something else we haven't even dreamed up yet.
As for "being nothing but a memory".. realize that C has been around for 20-30 years, and is still kicking (altough it is becoming more of a niche language, or taking over in embedded systems where assembly used to rule.)
If your nose runs and your feet smell, then you're built upside down.
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Navin wrote:
Possibly, but C++ will still be around for a long, long time. I think C++ is "on the way out" only if all programming languages as we know them are on their way out and will be superceded by something else we haven't even dreamed up yet.
I agree completely. 
BNEACETP
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C is the one language that I think may never go away, and I’ll tell you why. Just like the English language is made up of other languages, so too is C... or at least it was C, now its C++, as well as C#. The language is not going away, its just changing. I have been programming in it for around 20 years now, and I can see its influence in many of the newer languages.
It won’t die... it can’t, it has too many children.
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Sorry but this is not true at the moment. Im not saying it will be around forever, but its not true at the moment. ( i direct you to my thread, and please check out that link that is from Microsoft, which actually answeres this question with one of there MSDN .NET TV Episodes)
Do not try, do or do not!
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C++ will dominate the embedded systems, operating systems, drivers and desktop applications markets for years to come. Come 10years from now my predicate is C#. VB.net will never make the grade looking at forums etc. C# seems to be the prime language for .net.
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I don't understand...I like C#: pretty syntax, great with .NET but...it's SLOW! It is and it will be slower than managed C++, i think. I don't want to talk about unmanaged C++! I'm starting to use C# for UI but everything else is still running with C++. 10 years from now and we will talking about C^2, D*=2 and D-C-C-D... 
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I wonder if people who are using VB6.0 are moving straight to C#, Managed C++ or just sticking with the stuff they know. 
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I think so too. Actually, I am wondering when Microsoft will actually pull the plug on VB(.NET). What is the incentive to maintain several languages that essentially do the same thing the same way? I think it is pretty clear that there is a clear preference for C# & C++(managed or otherwise). And the similarity or Java & C# is a plus for C# in a big way. And I think even as a language, C# is pulling ahead of VB as far as new features go....
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Our company policy: All VB6 code is to be rewritten in ATL or C# depending on application requirements.
In order for VB programmers to stick to stuff they know they'd have to stick with VB6. My days of maintaining VB code are numbered. It will not be missed.
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