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Bingo!
Perhaps you have hit on the crux of the issue. (Actually, thinking about it, I did allude to that - a posting of todolist_exe-6.8.10.exe would be more obvious. e.g. Would have bopped me on the head when I saw 6.8.2 that I wasn't asking a question about the current production version.)
It is not clear which (files) is what. e.g. I keep asking for confirmation of what _pre.exe is/means.
So, reading into your question, my guess would be that a todolist_exe.zip posting notification went by and I didn't notice, or given whatever the _pre versions are, the non-pre's got lost in the noise.
Further, given your note, hopefully beat into my noggin now is - when you see this file go by, a new version is out, go peek at the modification list.
I suppose a wiki page explaining the uploads would be useful. Then a simple See: {wiki article} would have answered this thread earlier in the cycle.
Note that this doesn't take away from earlier comments or suggestions. For revision history / notification changes, it does seem that the wiki offers more built in automated functionality than the codeproject pages, but I do get that there are enough fiddly bits flying all about, and change is additional effort in and of itself.
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_BS_ wrote: I keep asking for confirmation of what _pre.exe is/means.
'_pre' denotes a pre-release version so, for your specific purposes, you can safely ignore it.
Therefore any notification from the wiki that 'todolist_exe.zip' has changed can safely be assumed to be a new version.
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Random thoughts...
I think we pay for open source software with our time. So if you want this wonderful free software, then you or someone you know needs to spend time tracking its progress.
Not a solution but an idea to consider: CodeProject has a new API which might have functions to allow you to pull desired content via a web service. Depending on the content retrieved you might be able to parse version numbers, file names, or other data of interest. Then with that data you can have the client code email you with nicely formatted emails.
Or someone here might offer to charge a couple bucks per year to email desired updates to a mailing list. To facilitate that I'd suggest that a specific wiki page get updated periodically, and the content of that page should then be pushed out to subscribers. Oh wait - that's RSS.
The problem with open source software is that most people just want the software, they don't care about the open source or the fact that open source documentation is as much a part of the FOSS as code. Everyone seems to rely on the code author to author the documentation as well - but few people realize how bad that expectation is, for many reasons.
Oh well, enough cynicism for one day...
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Oh please. You seem to have painted a broad brush across all FOSS here that doesn't universally apply here. Else the argument 'since other FOSS does it just fine ...' pokes its head up. And you ignore the acknowledged contributions I've made to this project. (Not to not acknowledge your own.)
Note that I have not suggested any more work than is already occurring. Releases and change notices are entered and present (scroll up). Arguably they could be put in the wiki (where automated notification facilities already exist) instead, and a link to it placed above. If however you wish to reinvent the wheel through codeproject one off API coding, don't let me stop you.
Wiki RSS is already present. No additional work needed - just in a different spot. [For that matter, I wonder if the wiki page could be embedded within the code project page above.]
In the mean time, please don't paint all FOSS users with the same brush. I don't expect you fall into the stereotypical (masses) FOSS user you intimate, don't paint every other FOSS user with that same brush that doesn't apply to you. Not all FOSS users are the same. Your comment is ironic - my acknowledged contributions are with the documentation.
Ideas and suggestions and questions are just that. Doesn't mean they're good ones for an environment. Part of the point of this community / forum is to discern whether they are good ones or resonate.
I asked a question that was substantially "How might I ..." - doing so doesn't deserve a beating.
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You're quite right on all points, and I apologize. As I said at the bottom of my note, I was in a cynical mood. I'm obviously of the same mind, posting notes here to see how others are using this software (and CP), to see how we can all get more benefit. To me, that is a contribution in the spirit of FOSS.
Present company not included, I'll stand by my notes about FOSS users in general - there are a precious few folks who contribute to the model. We got a bad taste of that here when Dan took some time off a few years ago. Rather than discussing how to keep the software going, most people who commented were like rats just jumping ship to go find the next developer they could abuse into retirement. I was appalled. Having been involved with FOSS for nearly 20 years, my tainted view of how the model has been abused comes from witnessing the growing graveyard of software and disappointed developers evidenced in SourceForge, CodePlex, GitHub, Google Code, here at CodeProject, and other repositories. It comes from the multitude of wikis on popular software that go unmaintained, and forums where people are eager to ask the same questions over and over, but have no interest in the Search button. My cynicism in this area will continue until the model is revised to somehow compel people who use free software to contribute back in some small way, to better reward those who provide the core from which we benefit.
As to RSS, etc, I don't know if it was mentioned but if you look in the left margin of this page you'll see a link under Article called Revisions[^]. That's not exactly what you want but it might be of some help.
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I hear you / choir re: general FOSS users.
However, it has occurred to me over the last couple years:
- not everyone has interest or skills in everything. But everybody uses.
- we have skills and interests and abilities that not everyone has.
- everyone else has skills and interests and abilities that we don't have.
- just because most don't contribute or show appreciation for a bit of FOSS doesn't mean they're worthless excuses for human beings. (Not that you were implying such.)
So if I apply my interests and contribute as I can to a project, and someone else doesn't, turns out that's OK. Hopefully they're doing something for someone else in some other way in this world that is valuable to others - be it laying a sidewalk, being a politician, volunteering, raising a child, or just being a friend. All of which I am (indirectly) a beneficiary of, from someone, somewhere - it's just not present in my computer life, and so invisible to my electronic circle of acquaintances. Easy to lose sight of that. Sort of changes one's (FOSS) worldview. A wee bit less cynicism, not that it's not justified, and a wee bit more tolerance, something we can all work on. (-:
Not to say the whiners don't get old, really fast. This is free, in my spare time, it's my volunteer work, and you're demanding I spend even more time to suit -your- (commercial) purpose? ... NOT.
And not to say FOSS creators don't frequently shoot themselves in the foot, casting a cloud over all FOSS developers in the process - this is what I've done, make use of it if useful to you, if you have questions or suggestions or don't understand ... sod off.
Both sides can always use more appreciation for the other ... and less ignorance all around.
And ... everything is new to everyone at some point. Easy to lose sight of that over time (TDL versions coming to mind, for me, at the moment), when we didn't know (and so don't understand) what we didn't know. My problem is I've forgotten so much that I once knew (download links -> filenames comes to mind) ...
But I do hear you / choir - in the end the real problem is those with attitudes and feelings of entitlement. Absent that, demonstrate understanding seeking without demanding, and I will work with you to the ends of the earth. Doesn't mean that after answering the same question for the umpteenth time doesn't make us cranky. (But is why I like documentation / wikis / FAQs - if I thought of it, so will others. Answer once, and we all get to move on faster.)
May everyone have a good day. Take a moment to say "Thank You." to the next volunteer you meet. Be they a computer person / FOSS participant, or not. "Thank You." just never gets old.
... Thank You! Dan.
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Thx for everyone's support over the last 11 years!
modified 4-Nov-14 23:55pm.
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Thank you for your really great software and your interest in enhancing it over all the time ...
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A truly remarkable effort Dan. Many thanks.
zajchapp
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Thanks for keeping us supported all this time
Alex
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It is us thanking you!
For the great help and support
in our daily lives
professional and other
Many thx!
And up for the next 11!
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Thank you for sharing an excellent program!
Question: if you were to rewrite the entire program from scratch today - how long do you think it would take you?
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Many thanks again to you, Dan, for creating ToDoList--a truly life-enhancing program, and for your constant effort in perfecting this unique and powerful productivity tool. Happy 11th anniversary!
NT
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Kudos for a truly remarkable app and your super-human dedication to your users.
Dave
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Hello Dan,
I was just wondering if you might be willing to reconsider the feature request for adding a checkbox list to the comment field
(http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4228273/Feature-request-checklists-with-checkable-checkbox.aspx). From the previous round of discussions on this feature request, it seems that quite a few TDL users may find it a very useful additional tool for managing tasks--for as powerful as ToDoList already is in managing tasks and subtasks with checkboxes in the task tree, there are often small details/sub-steps of tasks/subtasks that would be more efficiently listed and then checked off in the comment field, instead of being located in, and thus overburdening, the task tree.
Just for reference: apart from Evernote's checklist feature mentioned before--which is perhaps the easiest to use in a text field, for it is operated exactly the same way as the bullet or the number list--Stickies also has one, which works a little differently. Here is a description of it from the Stickies' forum: "When entering a note you can type [] at the start of a line, and when you do this it automatically converts those two characters into a working checkbox. Pressing enter will make a checkbox appear on the next line too (rather like bullets in Word)."
Many thanks for reconsidering this feature request (sorry for not taking "no" for an answer! ).
NT
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I read through the thread from 2012, and while I agree with Dan that TDL subtasks are better suited for a lot of purposes, I think others made some good points about the value of checkboxes in comments.
HOWEVER - now that we have Rich Text comments, why not use bullet items or numbered lists, and then use the strikethrough styling for completed items? It looks just like this:
* Milk
* Bread
* Butter
* Soup
I think that satisfies the intended goal of identifying points that no longer need attention. It's just using a different mechanism. Can anyone argue that this doesn't satisfy the base requirement?
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Notetaker wrote: Many thanks for reconsidering this feature request The big problems are that Windows' default rich-text widget does not support such sophisticated functionality as-is and I can't conceive of how I would implement it over the top of that widget mainly because of the arcane nature of the RTF format.
So for now it still sits in the 'too hard' basket.
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Hi Dan,
I understand. Yet as the saying goes, "Where an item is put into a basket, there is hope that it'll get done" (OK, I made that up. )--so I suppose I can keep hoping!
I thought of another version of the checklist, implemented in an application I once used (Noteliner: http://www.noteliner.org/i/Main.html[^]), which works without even using the checkbox and check mark--the checklist is built into the bulleted and numbered lists, so to speak: to "check off" an item, you click on its bullet or number to gray it out, with strikethrough as an option; to "uncheck" it, you just need to click on its bullet/number again. Would this type of implementation circumvent Windows' default rich-text widget?
NT
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I don't have time to dig it out at the moment, but I recall reading in the forums there that the author of Stickies really didn't like the implementation of this apparently commonly requested feature. I have been meaning to go back and look to see if this had been dealt with differently in more recent versions.
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Rather than just discussing technical matters, right now I'm wondering how people use the software.
When you flag a task as complete, do you leave the priority? If it was a high priority item, doesn't that leave this as a high priority but complete item? So do you downgrade the priority when its complete?
Does anyone remove the priority (set to <none> on items that are Complete or in another status that indicate no action should be taken? For example, I have statuses On Hold and Not Needed. Neither of these have a priority beyond Lowest or <none>.
What kind of pattern do you use to sort/filter your priorities for the day? Do you scan for a red High Priority? Do you sort by-descending priority? Do you generate a report?
Thanks.
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FWIW I would also like to hear a lot more of these discussions to help me understand the types of people using TDL.
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Unfortunately in this CP discussion medium we get about a week to discuss something before it falls off the bottom.
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I tend to use priority a little loosely. I don't often change it once initially set (unless urgency changes - importance is usually unchanging). It is the challenge of having structured detail vs simplicity & intuition. I have found in the past that trying to keep the tasklist perfect results in me just working on the tasklist rather than the tasks. Working fully in a flat, task name & 'do date' only task list results in too much reactivity and a loss of focus on the longer term goals (for me anyways).
So no, I don't go back to change the priority. But then I hide completed tasks, so it doesn't interfere.
I have previously asked about a rules functionality that would do some of the 'admin' work for me. i.e. if this happens, then change that. TDL does this for the status when you complete a task. Perhaps Dan might consider putting in a preference to change the priority on completion also.
Note: Dan, I noticed that once the task is checked off, the status is set to 'Complete', and cannot be changed. Initially I expected the status value to just be changed, rather than locked down. I have had occasion to want to change it to 'Cancelled'. Not a major though.
How I use TDL is quite complex (used for managing tasks and managing the project portfolio also, all in the one tasklist), but briefly...
For tasks, I tend to work mostly on Due date for filtering purposes in Listview. I flag tasks that I want to tackle this week (somewhat subjectively, based on the situation, priorities, due dates, how I'm feeling...), then assign a day (custom attribute - it may be before the due date). I multi-sort, but could really use a 5 level multi-sort... Not ideal, but it works adequately.
Note Dan: Not sure if this is intended behaviour. I am finding that when in Listview and I change the Filter, the Sort is lost and needs to be reapplied.
Currently, I then move these out of TDL into a simpler view (no attributes - just taskname and the day it is to be done). I find this much clearer visually. I used to use a hard-copy notebook for this, but have moved to an electronic solution. Probably says more about me than it does about TDL... It does result in the problem of having to update tasks in TDL later.
Tasks that are 'nice to do' or less are given a low priority, and are given no dates. They get dates when I decide to tackle them. BTW, my work tends to be project based, and I tend to be able to set what I work on and when (within reason ).
I run my detailed report on a monthly basis to get an overview of the whole tasklist (filtered on dates), and make some updates after that.
Hope that is of interest. I am looking forward to seeing if your work with the library might help with some of my workflow (especially a simplified calendar view with the ability to uncouple the day a task appears on with its start and due dates).
zajchapp
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Great info, thanks. About the library and a new calendar view - Sure, a developer can easily use any calendar component to display tasks based on any field available, like estimated due dates or a date from a custom column.
My usage of TDL is very different. My company has some long-term clients with software that needs mods and tuning over a period of years. Top level tasks under a given project include "add a field to a report", "create a web service", "create a new Excel workbook", or "research error 102 from process foo". Plus we get a lot of random requests from our industry. I rarely need to use due dates. The requests are more like "we need this" and after some initial discussion we're left to just do it as time permits over some reasonably short period of time.
When a project is defined I break it down into subtasks of about 3 hours each. I figure if I can't break it down further then the task isn't well defined. Most of my clients say they don't care how long something will take, but they need a real estimate so that they can budget costs and so they can report delivery estimates to their management. TDL is allowing me to get much better about providing estimates but I've found that some of my estimates are now "too real" and tend to chase new prospects away. Seriously, it's easy to under-estimate a project just to get a gig, to leave out things like possible communications issues, discussions, testing, etc. But these are real-world details that affect almost every project, so I add them in to the estimates. And because the estimates are so detailed, for larger projects I'm getting companies to pay for the time it takes to do the estimates - because I know for a fact that they're taking the TDL-generated reports and shopping them around to competitors. If a company accepts my proposal I'll credit them some amount from the cost of the estimate.
Tasks that haven't been started might be set with status In Planning or Not Started. When a task is approved it gets Assigned. As I or someone else works on a task, I flag the status as In Progress. If the client asks me to move to something else for an extended period, the status goes to On Hold. If I define a task that the client doesn't want done, I don't delete it, I set the status to Not Needed.
For daily efforts, I go back to open tasks by looking for In Progress but I've started changing the priority to get a better visual cue - tasks that need to be worked on now get a higher priority. I don't like doing that, and that's what prompted this thread. I don't know if we can do this already but I'd like to be able to set the color of a task row based on the status. An option would help to allow that color to be propagated to parent tasks. Over time, a task gets moved to Completed. Eventually siblings and parents are completed. I never archive tasks as we're frequently called upon to go back to completed projects for new mods.
For reporting I do an Export of all tasks, filtering out the ones that are Not Needed and a couple others. I go through that listing and check the status. I often find that a task that is getting active work is still flagged as Not Started, so I need to go back and change the status, then redo the export. It might be nice to get an enhancement to set a specific status on a task and all parents when time is logged.
Our reporting includes time logs with slightly modified versions of the new Analyses CSVs, filtered for the current time period. The export, per above, includes all open and completed tasks because it doesn't know which tasks were worked on recently. Ideally logging time might set a custom attribute which I can then use to filter the exported task data. Perhaps we could get an enhancement which updates the Modified date whenever time is logged on a task. And with that I think it should be optional to update the modified date on parent tasks. The idea here is that the export should include all "ancestry" as just a task name in isolation is ambiguous.
Based on a higher confidence in TDL, we're moving toward offering for-fee project management for our clients. This will include Gantt charts and new web-based reporting, emails, PDFs, and rich Excel workbooks created with the upcoming library[^].
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