Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Theoretically that's an option; practical, you're an arrogant twat to suggest it, and damn no, we're not intelligent as a species.
markrlondon wrote:Tongue in cheek aside, we know with 100% certainty that evolution can produce intelligent life (by which I mean life that can consciously consider abstract concepts). We are it. (As well as a small number of other Earthly animal species that demonstrate this ability to some extent).
How, in that case, do you choose to define "intelligent"?
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
There may be golden f***ing goats living on asparagus with three times our intellect; but there's ZERO PROOF in the entire visible universe. Being as arrogant as we are, some other intellect out there beyond us would be modest, and not send something recognizable?
markrlondon wrote:There is absolutely zero substantive reason to presume that either life or intelligent life could not or has not evolved elsewhere.
Like an almighty God who makes commandments in clay, instead of diamond tablets? You serious?
You seem to be arbitrarily presuming that, if there is intelligent (however you define that word) life out there, then it must already have made contact with us.
There is no reason to presume this. The galaxy is big. You have no reason to presume that first contact should, for some arbitrary reason, already have occurred.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:It makes more sense than assuming aliens (or Gods). Ask Occam.
Occam seems to suggest that if there is intelligent life here on Earth (which we know there is) then, assuming we are nothing special (and we have no reason at present to assume otherwise), there is no reason for there not to be life elsewhere in similar conditions, including possibly intelligent life.
The Occam's Razor concept merely allows us to hypothesise, on the basis of likelihoods, what is most likely. Well, based upon what very little we know (i.e. the existence of this planet, life on it, and intelligent life on it), it would be irrational to claim with certainty, as you do, that life or intelligent life elsewhere is somehow impossible. It happened here; it could happen somewhere else too.
But again, I note that you deny that humans are intelligent. I must point out that we are having this conversation. According to the definition of "intelligent" that I used, i.e. the ability to consider abstract concepts, we could not be having this conversation without us being intelligent.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:Being first doesn't make us special. Who knows how many species were wiped out before they could leave their planet? Life does not strive to colonize planets, nor does evolution reward rocket engines.
Ah, yet more statements based upon arbitrary assumptions.
Who says we are first? Isn't it yet more arrogant presumption on your part to assume that humans are first?
Indeed, who knows how many species were wiped out before they could leave their planet? But what of it? It is the survivors that matter. Perhaps you are simply presuming, yet again, that there must not be any survivors because you are simply not aware of them.
Life may or may not strive to colonise planets -- it depends on the preferences of the conscious and intelligent life that might or might not do such a thing. And it strikes me that evolution could very well reward rocket engines, if the development of rocket engines allows a species to escape its own world and the possible destruction of it. This demonstrates one of the ways in which intelligence is or can be a positive evolutionary trait (for the species that possesses it).
Eddy Vluggen wrote:"We don't know"? We know, aight? We knew ever since we met the Neanderthal; it doesn't matter what they think - we will eat them.
No, we don't know. Again, you are conflating presumption with certainty.
Also, as for neanderthals, they are in various parts us. We may or may not have eaten them (and they may or may not have eaten us), but we certainly had sex with them because their genes live on.
I am not saying that we going to have sex with aliens or that they are going to eat us or us them, only that a meeting between species is not some magically predetermined event. Who knows how it will work out. Being prepared for all possibilities is wise but you are just presuming, once again, that you know what the future will hold.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:Don't confuse a passtime and entertainment or fiction with reality. I'll call on Deadpool if you pull the Picard-card.
I am pointing out how if we can imagine such a thing, we can do such a thing. And if we can imagine and do such a thing, then it would be naive and arrogant to just presume, as you keep on doing, that intelligent aliens could not or might not do similar.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:Anything beyond this, I'll charge your arse for basic education.
Once again, I was merely pointing out your errors of presumption.