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cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
modified 16-Sep-19 9:31am.
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So I have an a$$ton of work going on. Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada.
Converted a project from ancient VS to VS2019. I was prompted to update VS2019. Now I have this Installer prompt that says:
"Success! One more step to go. Please restart your computer..."
Why? Seriously, why do I need to reboot? It's just a holdover from the "reboot Windows" it might fix it history. Or is VS really doing things to the OS that requires me to reboot? I'm not being sarcastic here. Help me understand.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I don't know for sure but I suspect that it is genuinely very likely indeed that it has updated an OS component that (ideally) needs a restart.
The problem, to my mind, is that so many OS updates still need a restart. I seem to remember that this was supposed to have been solved back in the Vista or was it 7 timeframe. And yet, no, OS restarts after updates seem to me to be as common as ever.
Windows now has epic amounts of virtualisation built in, so can't this technology be used to help avoid the need for restarts due to OS component upgrades? Apparently not, so far.
Instead of new icons (sarcasm aside), architectural updates to avoid the need for restarts at seemingly every Windows Update session would be a major step on the right direction.
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When I start an OS update, I think it's reasonable that I might have to reboot. It's the OS.
Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot. Or maybe MS developers suck (sarcasm). Still wondering why.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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charlieg wrote: Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot.
It does if you're using C++ or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them. At the time of installation, the files are locked, so during the run of the installer, they are queued up to be replaced on the next O/S start since that's the only time the O/S can guarantee they will not be in use by other applications.
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You saved me the time of typing that exact same response, so thank you. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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charlieg wrote: Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot.
I agree. But it's a matter of "should" versus "does".
Things need to change.
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Yeah, yeah. I get it. Wondering why Windows needs to reboot if I fart in it's general direction is an exercise in futility.
I get the technical comments. I just think back to that time when Bill was demonstrating USB device discovery and his machine blue screened...
It shows that if you put enough lipstick on a pig, you still have bacon eventually.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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FTFY: charlieg wrote: if you put enough lipstick on a pig, you still have [^] bacon eventually.
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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Windows locks executables (including DLLs) while they are in use. Because of this, in order to update shared components, the locks must be freed. While it's possible, there's no "clean" way to even determine who holds a lock that I know of (unless it was added to a more recent windows in which case I am wrong) so the safest thing to do is reboot.
VS uses a lot of shared components.
A lot of windows applications do, and generally, the larger/more complicated the application, the bigger your odds of having to reboot on update, because they typically use a lot of shared components increasing the odds that one of them is locked and the app needs to update it.
This also applies to the various OS features and shell widgets and doodads, not just applications.
I hope that clears it up.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Could have included an update to a .Net framework that requires a restart?
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It could simply be a flag in the installer set by the author for no better reason than 'just to be safe' or 'because I can'. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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Could it be that the installer makes entries in the registry, that requires a reboot so the modified registry could be read?
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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charlieg wrote: Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada.
[...]
charlieg wrote: Please restart your computer
The solution is to go all-in with VMs. If you run VS itself within its own VM, and it insists on rebooting, then you won't have to reboot the host OS, and drag along and interrupt whatever work the other VMs are doing.
For years, I've had nothing on my host OS but the motherboard drivers, and the virtualization software (Hyper-V in my case). All my work is done inside separate VMs - one dedicated to SQL, another for VS2019, older ones with older versions of VS, another for "everything else" (Office, email, browsers, etc). That way reboots cause the minimal amount of disruptions.
My host, at most, reboots once a month, on Patch Tuesday. I've had instances where I let the host wait for a reboot for a few months on end--right now it's still waiting to complete the setup for the February patches. Since I do nothing on the host, including no browsing, it's really at minimal risk and I don't worry as much about hurrying to patch that one as I might with any of the guest VMs. Could be Linux if I was so inclined.
Bonus: Backing up is just a matter of copying .VHD files. Since there's nothing on the host, I don't even bother backing that one up--reinstalling the OS is pretty quick nowadays. My entire backup set is just a bunch of VHD files that can be managed like any other file with Explorer. Some of these have even been migrated to different physical machines over time.
Extra bonus: Since the heavy work is all done in VMs, the host is warming up another room and I don't even have to hear its loud fans. On my desk in this room is a tiny, completely quiet Intel NUC, with 3 monitors, and it RDPs to the individual VMs.
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Interesting question.
I found the following. It suggests that windows locks the dlls because it is using the dll itself as a memory mapped file. So of course having that replaced while running would be bad thing. Sounds like a reasonable cause although I could not find other sources that back that up.
c# - Why does the .NET framework lock dlls? - Stack Overflow[^]
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Simplified garbage collecting.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Epic is giving two games from Daedalic for free this week.
Deponia: The complete journey
and
Ken Follett's The Pillars of the Earth
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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<rant>
Anyone else tired of all the "woke" internal emails and posts with your employer, this group's month and that group's month, wellness contests, mindfulness propaganda, etc.?
What happened to just focusing on getting the job done, getting along with and respecting coworkers, and leaving politics out of the work environment?
I long for the good old days when discussions outside the immediate work focus centered around football teams (American football), baseball, family stuff, or the old pro- or anti-Microsoft arguments. And when it was over, we could all get a beverage of our choice together.
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I work for a small company where everyone is so busy nobody can dream of having the time needed to write to emails.
A company should be focused on what it's trying to sell. You know if you're getting those, someone doesn't have nearly enough to do.
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Yeah, sort of depends on the size of the company and where the roots are. I have no patience for it.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I get none of those (I'm self-employed) 
However, I think this has to do with the changing times.
People no longer want to work 9 to 5 to simply provide for their families.
Work is a huge part of your life so it should be "fun".
For example, my previous employer had air balloon flights (which was unfortunately cancelled because of the bad weather), weekends at the beach, hackathons, movie nights and what have you.
They even had a "happiness officer" (in her defense, she was also a recruiter and she recruited me and she was genuinely very nice and fun, seeing her always made everyone happy).
Old farts like yourself and grumps like me (I don't consider myself old yet) prefer the old 9 to 5 mentality, but companies need to do something to get the attention of the new and young talent who expect more from their employer.
Then comes all the wellness and yoga and stuff.
A lot of people are experiencing COVID-related stress.
In the Netherlands, when an employee gets sick, the employer pays for health benefits for up to two years after an employee gets sick, even when no work is done.
To make things worse, simply firing an employee is generally a huge undertaking that will probably cost you lots of money.
As you can imagine, employers are scared shitless for employees getting overworked, depressed and basically anything that would prevent them from doing work while still getting paid.
It's so bad over here that employers aren't even looking to hire anymore and about 13% of the workforce is forced into self-employment (which isn't why I chose this path by the way).
Out of all business owner's, 75% does not have any employees.
This is a huge issue over here that the government is currently tackling by making it less attractive to be self-employed 
So anyway, if an employee gets sick, you better have proof that you, as employer, did everything you could to prevent it... Like wellness, mindfulness, yoga...
It's probably like this in the whole of Europe (maybe a bit "worse" in northern countries, and a bit "less" in eastern countries, I don't know).
I can imagine it's completely different in America, but similar thoughts may play a role.
Especially getting and keeping young talent and especially in IT where good workers are hard to come by.
Let's also not forget that employers also need to adapt to these new times, new trends and now work from home and some of them may be searching for ways to keep their employees happy and involved.
Some do it better than others 
I've worked for an "old fashioned" company where the average age was well over 40.
That wasn't a lot of fun either and ultimately I quit and some other young employees did as well and none of the interns stayed either...
I also really don't care about football (soccer), Formula 1, sports in general, family stuff (especially children) and I've heard all the pro- or anti-Microsoft arguments by now 
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If someone has time to be sending a bunch of emails like that, then it isn't a dev focused dev shop, IMO
I don't like big companies, or rather companies that do more than software development, in part because of the interpersonal politics that comes with it - i find it easier to navigate the less people there are, and also there's a lot of needless churn at companies that do more than development. I see these emails you bring up as part of that. Along with trainings and meetings that have nothing to do with the craft.
I don't think "woke" is really the issue here, at least for me. I'd have, and have had just as big a problem with so called "team builders" that really need to find a hobby instead of coming up with an endless stream of garbage we have to participate in just so they can justify their continued employment.
My $0.02
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: I don't think "woke" is really the issue here, at least for me. I'd have, and have had just as big a problem with so called "team builders" that really need to find a hobby instead of coming up with an endless stream of garbage we have to participate in just so they can justify their continued employment.
Truer words have rarely been spoken. Fire the @#$% drones, and use their salaries (and the budgets that they control) to increase the productive workers' bonuses. I am perfectly competent to find my own leisure activities, and people with which to share them.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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MSBassSinger wrote: I long for the good old days when discussions outside the immediate work focus ...
Perhaps because your "good old days" are not the only representation (or memory) of what those were?
Before awareness and even sexual harassment laws existed I remember the following.
1. One co-worker that continuously shared extreme racist and misogynistic jokes. It wasn't possible to have a conversation with him without this happening.
2. At another job one male owner of the company was so egregious that he was sued by women four times and lost in court at least two of those. Again keeping in mind that he lost before sexual harassment laws existed.
3. At another job the owner insisted that the managers only hire women with big breasts. Presumably so he could look at them while he was discussing football (which he also did.)
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