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One of the reasons I have such disdain for npm, webpack, and all the other aspects of the web-sphere, is exactly many of the issues you've mentioned - absurd amounts of dependencies, lack of "how to" documentation, and so forth. And forget getting all that tooling to work in Visual Studio, my favorite IDE / debugger tool. Visual Code sucks - it keeps changing with every new release, and I'm sick of that and the half-assed plugins that only half work.
I've come to love web development, but only in the context of, don't use anything someone else wrote unless absolutely necessary. So I have a very small suite of third party libraries I use:
never jQuery (except that the above to require it)
no third party "MV[x]" framework
no "pollute my HTML with declarative code" engines, so no Angular, no Vue, no shyte.
um, nothing else really.
and everything is coded in TypeScript, and I can debug happily either in the Chrome console or right in Visual Studio.
As usual, I rebel. I am not a lemming. I will not leap of the cliff that everyone else appears to be leaping off of.
We seem to come from rather different worlds, but this is one reason I write pure C++ with as few dependencies on other things as possible. I like most of the STL, but there's a lot of shite out there.
I even have a black Stetson, a going-away present from a former team. Hi y'all if any of you are reading this. Some of them still work on the product almost 20 years later.
Yeah, me too.
I use Bootstrap, Font Awesome and Vue and sometimes a bit of jQuery although I'm trying vanilla JS as much as possible.
I really hate front-end stuff and Vue really helps take away the pain.
I tried Angular and React a few years back, but ditched them after about an hour.
Then I tried Vue and that was really what I was looking for.
If you haven't looked at it yet I can recommend it.
Maybe even you might like it
Marc Clifton wrote:
And OMG, "eval"???
Yeah, that seems to be the default and somehow it still got popular
When you check Webpack forums you'll find people who are unable to run it at all because of security policies.
Luckily, the fix is VERY easy... IF you know what it is...
Still, worst default setting EVER.
Saw that in the Build presentations. The creator of DNN has already jumped on board with a Blazor framework named oqtane. Looked at it but didn't bite. Seems like it is not quite ready for prime time, maybe close.
If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
Me, I'll jump right into it!
I resisted doing web dev as much as I could... But the wave finally caught me anyway
I see Blazor as my savior! Finally a beautiful and sensible and performant technology! Nobody will stop me using it!
Actually.. I should start investigating now how easy it is to sneak in some Blazor tech into an existing website...
Configuring webpack and getting things into the right places does take a lot of research and time. I've accomplish some (if not all) of the things you wish to accomplish with webpack. Here is a link to a project that you can clone and npm run start.
Then sample project includes a already set up webpack project that generates src and minified files. It also includes hot reloading.
I don't like web development - you are not in control , when I'm forced into working on a web project I write everything myself wherever possible - no frameworks, no f*****g Entity Framework, no ORM, NO nothing , it's reinvent the wheel at every step - which is probably why I'm kept away from such things
"We can't stop here - this is bat country" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
When I moved over from C => C++ => web development, I made it a point not to use any of those "frameworks". In fact, I determined to keep the dependence upon the ephemera, i.e., the coming and going latest-and-greatest platforms far away from my work. Maybe a leftover attitude from my 'C' days.
And I can have a lot of fun doing it.
New things don't break old things. Setup's a breezed: mainly my working directories and how I like to color-code my text in the editor. Autocomplete is neat - better, generally, then what spell checkers do to me.
Is this a spartan life, or, have I broken through the surface and can breathe clean fresh air? Maybe just a version of cord-cutting.
You've dug a pit and accessorized it. But, no matter how much you pad and decorate the wall, it's still a pit. Climb out. Shove all the platform dirt in like a cat burying its sh*t - and start doing things right. And feel good about it!
I use SCSS to ease the pain of CSS, the biggest technological turd ever dropped.
Unfortunately, that requires me to use something to transpile to CSS, a pain, but not nearly as painful as CSS.
In fact, to come back to the other discussion, the fact that CSS exists proves that there is no God, only evil!
Seriously, Crystal Reports is the holy grail of tech compared to CSS
You're (partly) right though.
I'm now trying to add TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor to my project and it's just pain and frustration with Webpack.
I can't get it to work, even when following the official documentation.
One line of HTML script with CDN and it works great.
Download it for a local fallback and I'm good to go.
Maybe I'll just use Webpack to transpile the SCSS and bundle my own scripts and to copy some stuff from node_modules to wwwroot and then I'll just keep it at that
It really makes you wonder if there really isn't anything better the front-end world has to offer
Many years ago I created my personalweb-page using HTML. That's it. Not even any CSS.
A little later I added some CSS.
I have managed to keep that landing page clean HTML/CSS since then and it is so easy to maintain and update when I want to. It works on all browsers the same, no problems with incompatible libraries, frameworks or add-ons because there aren't any.
I was tempted to "upgrade" it recently but managed to resist the impulse - and i 'm very happy with it.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
In the old days there were lots of web pages that were not "web apps".
I had my own "blog" in the fist half of the 1990s, except that the "blog" term wasn't established then. I updated the contents using a plain text editor (I belive it was Brief at that time), and wrote pure HTML, not even CSS.
The text (with images, where appropriate) were the essential thing. You didn't need fancy flashing images and background video to convey your opinions at that time. Yet I had some twenty thousand readers of my Norwegian language blog posts, which was quite a lot in the 1990s. I even was reported to the police for one of them, and had to meet at the police station to proudly declare that I am willing, any day, to stand up in court and defend my right both to have these opinions, and to communicate them to others. I never heard any more from the police.
I even was reported to the police for one of them, and had to meet at the police station
What was it about?
Member 7989122 wrote:
You didn't need fancy flashing images and background video to convey your opinions at that time.
Neither do I, I need inputs and lookups to enter, validate, store and show data.
A WYSIWYG editor so my client can enter rich text including images without having to type HTML.
A connection to a payment system so his customers can pay for rendered services.
Some scheduled tasks to handle automated processing.
This is a business line application, not some blog or personal project.
Needless to say, my client expects he doesn't have to write pure HTML and he'd probably appreciate a little CSS as well
How times have changed