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cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
modified 16-Sep-19 9:31am.
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I've been looking for information on chip lithography processes used in creating SoCs for IoT devices like the ESP32 based devices.
The ESP32 is @ 40nm which seems huge today, given my AMD APU is at 7nm.
Even when it was released 40nm was kind of big.
Now, these devices are known for low power, but even now, I struggle writing software that will use my ESP32's tensilica CPU in such a way as to extend the operating life on a charge.
If it's a cost issue, I don't think it's a tenable one:
I would pay 4x the price for ultra low power versions of the ESP32 widgets I have.
I don't know as much about other offerings like ARMs and so far googling isn't coming up with much real world info on lithography used across the range of IoT SoC offerings.
But my takeaway is these little chips have some catching up to do in an area where they could sorely use it.
Real programmers use butterflies
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But a thing to remember SoC is intended for embedded devices, which are more prone to static damage.
Stick you 7nM AMD is the envoirment I work in and it will dead with a matter of hours from static/seawater ingress, 40nM will last longer as there is more to be damaged before it pops. While not an issue for most things, if you are mounting it on the sea bed where down time cost a very large telephone number one of the key design requirments is how hard is to break, not how efficient it is. My company looked at getting Siemens to restart making an old chip design as it was 32 bits, big flat pack with hand solderable leads to supply spares.
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I am a curious amateur, knowing "nothing" about advanced biology. But I am curious 
I still remember the days when there was a race to be the first research institute to do a complete sequencing of human DNA. It took weeks, or maybe it was months.
Nowadays, DNA sequencing seems to be as simple as taking a breath. "Everyone" seems to do it in a snap. Covid19 RNA (it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?) is obviously magnitudes below human DNA, but even human DNA sequencing seems to be a piece of cake today, to determine your ancestry, or your disposition of various diseases, or in criminal cases, or for a whole lot of other purposes.
Most of this change has come in less than twenty years. What happened? Computers haven't become that much faster! (I got the impression that they are essential as a tool.) Is the speedup in other, non-computer analysis hardware? Or have the scientists developed a completely new methodology that is a magnitude or two faster? Or are those companies offering info about ancestry or disease risk doing only a quick, partial analysis rather than a full sequencing?
To phrase it differently: If we twenty years ago had had all the knowledge that we have today about methodologies, would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months, or are the methods of today fully dependent on recent hardware development? (I assume that computer hardware development is only part of it!)
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trønderen wrote: It took weeks, or maybe it was months years.
FTFY.trønderen wrote: it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?
It can be either one, depends on the virus group. RNA is only used for replication, which is what most viruses are targetting.trønderen wrote: What happened?
It is like learning how to ride a bike, once you know how it goes you can ride all bikes, not only yours.
trønderen wrote: would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months
No.
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trønderen wrote: it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?
It's a single-stranded RNA virus.
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Covid is an RNA virus
Back in the day (staring in 1990) the Human Genome Project was labouring to sequence the human genome. However, the technologies they (and others) developed advanced, and in 1998 Craig Venter started a parallel private effort. Depending on what "complete" counts as, he actually published the sequence first. I've seen estimates of the Human Genome Project as costing USD2.7B, but now you can get a full sequence done for < USD1000.
So, yeah. If we had today's technology then, stuff would have completed faster. Something short (~30,000 bases) like Covid doesn't take them long anymore - they had the full sequence last January, and they know exactly where the variants differ as well.
Ancestry, 23andMe, and the others aren't doing full sequencing though. They're doing a partial method (as you guessed) that involves trying to find specific differences. (They chop up the DNA at specific sequence types, then separate out the remaining chains to find differences).
TTFN - Kent
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trønderen wrote: Nowadays, DNA sequencing seems to be as simple as taking a breath. "Everyone" seems to do it in a snap. Covid19 RNA (it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?) is obviously magnitudes below human DNA, but even human DNA sequencing seems to be a piece of cake today, to determine your ancestry, or your disposition of various diseases, or in criminal cases, or for a whole lot of other purposes.
Google "RNA vs DNA".
trønderen wrote: Most of this change has come in less than twenty years. What happened? Computers haven't become that much faster! (I got the impression that they are essential as a tool.) Is the speedup in other, non-computer analysis hardware? Or have the scientists developed a completely new methodology that is a magnitude or two faster? Or are those companies offering info about ancestry or disease risk doing only a quick, partial analysis rather than a full sequencing?
Computers did increase, as did our knowledge of biology.
trønderen wrote: To phrase it differently: If we twenty years ago had had all the knowledge that we have today about methodologies, would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months, or are the methods of today fully dependent on recent hardware development? (I assume that computer hardware development is only part of it!)
Twenty years ago is 2001. I'm from 1977. We'd have dealt with it another way; stricter lockdowns, quarantines for entire cities.
Let me paint you a (realistic) picture; I'll be vaccinated this month, but the effectiveness of the vaccine is 70%. Nothing like measles. I won't be allowed outside during lockdown, vaccinated or not.
For every human it infects, millions of copies (and evolution). If it infects someone vaccinated in those 30%, it may become immune to the vaccine. So after my shot, I still need to stay indoors.
I am old enough to remember when every new vaccine was celebrated. We seen the effects of polio. Suddenly, half of our country refuses vaccines without any good reason. This "minor disease" as called here, may turn hostile soon, if we don't stop the amount of people it infects.
We need stop spread. We need to stop idiots.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: We need to stop idiots.
That's what people from both sides of the issue say.
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Imagine the same with polio. Look up what the disease did, and how vaccines killed it.
There's no discussion here.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I say we wear masks forever, and stay in lockdown forever.
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So, you trouble with history? We could and we won't. Because in time of polio, everyone wanted vaccine.
Slacker007 wrote: I say we wear masks forever, and stay in lockdown forever.
That's what I expect; if people do not want vaccine nor stick to the rules, the virus will spread, and with spreading it will copy a million times in every new body. And thus, it will evolve faster.
And with part of us vaccinated it will evolve beyond that. If just part of us vaccinated and lot infected, it will mutate beyond that.
There once was a time where we celebrated new vaccines because they save lives. Congratulations and kudo's to you.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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There is no "both sides of the issue" with this. There are the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it, thinking they know more than the people who study this stuff for their entire lives.
You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
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You sure told him.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: There is no "both sides of the issue" with this
True, there's only science.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: Thereare the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it
So, the people who accept science, and the religious ones.
This is not a discussion; it about whether you accept science, with all it's proof, or go for religion without any. There's no middle ground here.
And frankly, those that do believe, should be left to their gods.
--edit
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias (thought error or bias), in which people who lack knowledge and have poor skills in social or intellectual areas incorrectly overestimate these characteristics and abilities in themselves Which you proven. Quod Eddy Demonstrandum.
Did you have more to add?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
modified 28 secs ago.
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Lost frogs on a low-calorie diets should still know their weigh around the pond,
(Ref Post)[^]
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I'm sure I toad you that one last year ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Quote: Win or lose, sink or swim
One thing is certain we'll never give in
Side by side, hand in hand
We all stand together
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Frogs are notorious for their shaming. They love to ribbet in when you do something wrong!
If you can't laugh at yourself - ask me and I will do it for you.
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They are also adverse to playing in bands, seems they are not much for gigging[^].
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Well you could try turning the heat setting all the way up on the iron, set it on the ironing board, then cosey up the whole assembly next to you while you're sitting in your work-chair working ...
You sound cold.
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Three days after last year Purim festieves was the first day kids didn't go to scholl because of COVID.
Since then we had two and a half lockdown, we - mostly - wearing mask and working a lot from home (except those had lost their job).
But personally I found these times we locked in-house together very good...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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I'm happy to see you've found some bright notes in this.
Because of the lockdown I got some access to some really good services I couldn't get in my side of the state. Bless zoom, and people's newfound comfort with it.
Real programmers use butterflies
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The really weird thing is how "familiar" it's all got - to the point where you see an older TV program with people in shops, not social distancing, not wearing masks, and you feel uncomfortable ...
I suspect it's going to take quite a while to get back to "normal", if we ever do.
Last summer I had to make an appointment to see a jeweler, and everyone was happy that I was going to turn up in a mask and gloves. A year ago, and the police would be waiting for me ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: to the point where you see an older TV program with people in shops, not social distancing, not wearing masks,
It makes me want to cry when I see that, we've lost so much and so many.
OriginalGriff wrote: and you feel uncomfortable ...
I will never feel uncomfortable seeing people unmasked and close together. I constantly feel uncomfortable when I see people in masks and socially distancing. It's like living in a dystopian sci-fi short story where social interaction is regulated by the government, surveillance spies, and the self-made gestapo.
But I hear what you're saying.
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