|
1. The lounge is for the CodeProject community to discuss things of interest to the community, and as a place for the whole community to participate. It is, first and foremost, a respectful meeting and discussion area for those wishing to discuss the life of a Software developer.
The #1 rule is: Be respectful of others, of the site, and of the community as a whole.
2. Technical discussions are welcome, but if you need specific programming question answered please use Quick Answers[^], or to discussion your programming problem in depth use the programming forums[^]. We encourage technical discussion, but this is a general discussion forum, not a programming Q&A forum. Posts will be moved or deleted if they fit better elsewhere.
3. No sys-admin, networking, "how do I setup XYZ" questions. For those use the SysAdmin[^] or Hardware and Devices[^] forums.
4. No politics (including enviro-politics[^]), no sex, no religion. This is a community for software development. There are plenty of other sites that are far more appropriate for these discussions.
5. Nothing Not Safe For Work, nothing you would not want your wife/husband, your girlfriend/boyfriend, your mother or your kid sister seeing on your screen.
6. Any personal attacks, any spam, any advertising, any trolling, or any abuse of the rules will result in your account being removed.
7. Not everyone's first language is English. Be understanding.
Please respect the community and respect each other. We are of many cultures so remember that. Don't assume others understand you are joking, don't belittle anyone for taking offense or being thin skinned.
We are a community for software developers. Leave the egos at the door.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
modified 16-Sep-19 9:31am.
|
|
|
|
|
... up to a lap dancing club in New York's web site - I sure you were only thinking of my mental health in the lockdown - but it is a little disconcerting to get emails with the subject line "Die Happy Tonight!".
I'm sure the free membership they keep offering will come in really handy should I decide to fly 3,500 miles to just look at pretty ladies who clearly need a larger clothing allowance. 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
OriginalGriff wrote: hould I decide to fly 3,500 miles to just look at pretty ladies who clearly need a larger clothing allowance.
They'd probably deny you a visa, claiming that you were entering the United States for immoral purposes... 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
|
|
|
|
|
There is nothing moral about this country. We accept all kinds, clearly. 
|
|
|
|
|
Why didn't I think of doing that? 
OriginalGriff wrote: to just look at pretty ladies who clearly need a larger clothing allowance.
I swear, the smaller the thing is and the less fabric it uses, the more expensive it seems to be.
Had a similar argument over my new glasses; tiny piece of plastic to hold lenses, is bloody expensive due to "design". Asked him if they had any without "design". They didn't.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
|
|
|
|
|
So I have an a$$ton of work going on. Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada.
Converted a project from ancient VS to VS2019. I was prompted to update VS2019. Now I have this Installer prompt that says:
"Success! One more step to go. Please restart your computer..."
Why? Seriously, why do I need to reboot? It's just a holdover from the "reboot Windows" it might fix it history. Or is VS really doing things to the OS that requires me to reboot? I'm not being sarcastic here. Help me understand.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
|
|
|
|
|
I don't know for sure but I suspect that it is genuinely very likely indeed that it has updated an OS component that (ideally) needs a restart.
The problem, to my mind, is that so many OS updates still need a restart. I seem to remember that this was supposed to have been solved back in the Vista or was it 7 timeframe. And yet, no, OS restarts after updates seem to me to be as common as ever.
Windows now has epic amounts of virtualisation built in, so can't this technology be used to help avoid the need for restarts due to OS component upgrades? Apparently not, so far.
Instead of new icons (sarcasm aside), architectural updates to avoid the need for restarts at seemingly every Windows Update session would be a major step on the right direction.
|
|
|
|
|
When I start an OS update, I think it's reasonable that I might have to reboot. It's the OS.
Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot. Or maybe MS developers suck (sarcasm). Still wondering why.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
|
|
|
|
|
charlieg wrote: Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot.
It does if you're using C++ or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them. At the time of installation, the files are locked, so during the run of the installer, they are queued up to be replaced on the next O/S start since that's the only time the O/S can guarantee they will not be in use by other applications.
|
|
|
|
|
You saved me the time of typing that exact same response, so thank you.
Real programmers use butterflies
|
|
|
|
|
charlieg wrote: Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot.
I agree. But it's a matter of "should" versus "does".
Things need to change.
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, yeah. I get it. Wondering why Windows needs to reboot if I fart in it's general direction is an exercise in futility.
I get the technical comments. I just think back to that time when Bill was demonstrating USB device discovery and his machine blue screened...
It shows that if you put enough lipstick on a pig, you still have bacon eventually.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
|
|
|
|
|
FTFY: charlieg wrote: if you put enough lipstick on a pig, you still have [^] bacon eventually.
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
|
|
|
|
|
Windows locks executables (including DLLs) while they are in use. Because of this, in order to update shared components, the locks must be freed. While it's possible, there's no "clean" way to even determine who holds a lock that I know of (unless it was added to a more recent windows in which case I am wrong) so the safest thing to do is reboot.
VS uses a lot of shared components.
A lot of windows applications do, and generally, the larger/more complicated the application, the bigger your odds of having to reboot on update, because they typically use a lot of shared components increasing the odds that one of them is locked and the app needs to update it.
This also applies to the various OS features and shell widgets and doodads, not just applications.
I hope that clears it up.
Real programmers use butterflies
|
|
|
|
|
Didn't you just thank dave for saving you to type the same answer?   
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Could have included an update to a .Net framework that requires a restart?
|
|
|
|
|
It could simply be a flag in the installer set by the author for no better reason than 'just to be safe' or 'because I can'. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
|
|
|
|
|
Could it be that the installer makes entries in the registry, that requires a reboot so the modified registry could be read?
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
|
|
|
|
|
charlieg wrote: Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada.
[...]
charlieg wrote: Please restart your computer
The solution is to go all-in with VMs. If you run VS itself within its own VM, and it insists on rebooting, then you won't have to reboot the host OS, and drag along and interrupt whatever work the other VMs are doing.
For years, I've had nothing on my host OS but the motherboard drivers, and the virtualization software (Hyper-V in my case). All my work is done inside separate VMs - one dedicated to SQL, another for VS2019, older ones with older versions of VS, another for "everything else" (Office, email, browsers, etc). That way reboots cause the minimal amount of disruptions.
My host, at most, reboots once a month, on Patch Tuesday. I've had instances where I let the host wait for a reboot for a few months on end--right now it's still waiting to complete the setup for the February patches. Since I do nothing on the host, including no browsing, it's really at minimal risk and I don't worry as much about hurrying to patch that one as I might with any of the guest VMs. Could be Linux if I was so inclined.
Bonus: Backing up is just a matter of copying .VHD files. Since there's nothing on the host, I don't even bother backing that one up--reinstalling the OS is pretty quick nowadays. My entire backup set is just a bunch of VHD files that can be managed like any other file with Explorer. Some of these have even been migrated to different physical machines over time.
Extra bonus: Since the heavy work is all done in VMs, the host is warming up another room and I don't even have to hear its loud fans. On my desk in this room is a tiny, completely quiet Intel NUC, with 3 monitors, and it RDPs to the individual VMs.
|
|
|
|
|
It's been on my list to do for 2 years. I guess I should stop $itching and start doing.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
|
|
|
|
|
I do more or less the same, but not in a dedicated maschine...
One VM for serious staff
Another one for surfing / searching non whitelisted places
Another one for...
VS Community (for private pet projects) is in the main OS though. But as I don't use it so much last time...
Additionally, I am someone that switches the PC off almost every day, so I don't really care about the reboots.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting question.
I found the following. It suggests that windows locks the dlls because it is using the dll itself as a memory mapped file. So of course having that replaced while running would be bad thing. Sounds like a reasonable cause although I could not find other sources that back that up.
c# - Why does the .NET framework lock dlls? - Stack Overflow[^]
|
|
|
|
|
Simplified garbage collecting.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
|
|
|
|
|
truth
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
|
|
|
|
|
All excellent points. I had not considered that VS2019 might have updated core OS components. I was tired  That said, if VS2019 is updating core OS stuff, it should be in the standard patch rollout. Segmentation please. As someone else mentioned, it's probably a default in the install s/w.
1 point to MS: although they did not give me a "reboot later" button, I could X off the prompt and keep going.
I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS.
Thank you all
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
modified 3 mins ago.
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
