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The head Chantix pharmacologist, Dr. H Jekyl, is quoted as saying "What's the problem?"
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I get the impression that quite a few developers here are not impressed with the ribbon concept. If so, what's the main gripe with it?
We use the DevExpress ribbon in our apps and it's relatively painless to use and easy to write code for. Perhaps there is a serious flaw with ribbon concepts but out-of-the-box it works, it looks quite nice so why are some folk upset with it?
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I think people dislike it because it's different and/or because of the screen space it takes up. As a user (Office '07), I really disliked it at first because it seemed to make things harder to find, but as I got used to it I liked it more and more because it put more things within easy reach. At home I use a widescreen laptop with limited vertical screen space. The ribbon occasionally gets in the way in that environment, but I can just temporarily hide it (again, in Office '07) when it becomes a problem.
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I know that after a while you get used with it. I mean kind of, can you afford not to? Is there an alternative?
Humans get used with almost anything given a slow enough transition; so we got used with corruption in bloated governments.
It still looks like some manager's idea (very influential one I must say) was forced into the product. I would like to know who, to put a face on that ribbon.
I may see the utility of the ribbon for users that are starting to use Office, or previous light users that are still able to find all their functions in the ribbon. However, for me ... I'm still looking for almost 10 commands that previously I could find easy in the menus or toolbars (as somebody else mentioned). For example working with styles in Word became hell for me, ... anybody else?
Why not keep both options menus + toolbars along ribbon and allow switching?
Cheers.
giuchici
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I used to use Styles all the time because they were so easy to use and absolutely consistent. For the most part I've gone back to simply formatting things myself because I haven't taken the time to figure them out.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -- Groucho Marx
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What is there to figure out? Styles used to be relatively hidden. I don't know any novice users that discovered styles on their own before the ribbon, but with it all styles are on the home tab. If you want to change the styleset, you can just select one from the dropdown, or assign your own styles from the selection without opening another window.
I really don't understand why people are so affronted by the ribbon. All it does is place commands in a more logical arrangement, and that's coming from someone who knew the big Office apps inside-out before the switch. If anything, I know them even better now. As a software developer, I can appreciate that users don't want an interface they've been using for a long time suddenly turned on its end, but seriously, the UI before the ribbon was incredibly arbitrary in its arrangement, and the ribbon is cleaner in almost every way. It's not like it takes any time at all to adapt to it. All of the keyboard shortcuts from earlier versions still work too, even the alt- menu shortcuts (although they also have new mappings). As a matter of philosophy, I consider being able to adapt to such changes (especially for the better) without a hiccup a prerequisite of working in this industry, and certainly of being an engineer/developer/creative person. I also find that the people who were most angered by the change were those who didn't really have a good working mental model of the programs to begin with. The Office ribbon is much more in-line with how they were designed to be used.
That aside, I don't consider the ribbon to be much different from old fashioned toolbars. The idea of licensing Fluent is crazy and the idea that the licensing requirement would hold up in court is ludicrous. The big jump was simply Microsoft's step to making toolbars do the work of arranging themselves for you. The toolbars did some of that before, but they were also smaller, harder to see/find, and would often jump around. The ribbon sizes buttons based on their importance and arranges them based on their use.
Cheers!
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Z-Human wrote: All of the keyboard shortcuts from earlier versions still work too, even the
alt- menu shortcuts (although they also have new mappings).
I really got used to using Alt and the first & maybe second key shortcuts, for then you'd see the menu displayed to the point where you could easily see the next shortcut key. Now, if you don't know the final key to press, after the first or second keystroke the ribbon simply informs you that it's wating for the next keystroke. For example, in Excel, inserting a series of values requires Alt-E, I, S. Try just Alt-E, I. You get a message to type the next letter or hit Escape. So, if you don't know it (the next keystroke), you're out of luck and HAVE to use the ribbon. So, it really forces me to use the mouse much more than Office 2003 and earlier did.
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The answer is simple - take the time (it really isn't much time in practice). When you do, you will be startled how much easier to use styles have become.
I have been using Word since its DOS days and the ribbon interface is the most polished. When I go back to an earlier version for any reason, the toolbar seems very clunky and inefficient. Just think, when the original toolbar first appeared in Word, I disliked it for a while because I, foolishly, so wanted to do things the old way!
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>> Why not keep both options menus + toolbars along ribbon and allow switching? 
I assume you meant one or the other... gawd not both at the same time  . But yeah, allowing the *user* to choose what they want, what they find most productive would be the way to go. What a concept!
Prior to the missus going back to school, we both had Office 2003 installed on our laptops. I still do and I *refuse* to "upgrade", and I use that word quite loosely. Her homework assignments where downloaded off the MTSU website and were in .docx format. The first time she tried open one of those files, she went into a panic. Realizing what the problem was, I uninstalled Office 2003 and installed Office 2007. Now, every few minutes I minutes I'm being asked, "Where is the fill_in_the_blank icon?". She's slowly coming up to speed w/ the interface, but it's not been easy. Whoever came up this ribbon idea should have tied it around their dangles and hung 
modified on Monday, May 30, 2011 10:35 AM
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 , and yes that's what I meant (keep them both as options).
To have menu pads, toolbars and the ribbon would be a bit of an overkill.
The only things missing would have been a preview panel as in Outlook and and action panel as in MMC so you're left to edit your document in a 1 sq inch area.
giuchici
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Why not keep both...
Lucily, that's what S did on the Mac - the old menu is still there so I can find things, and the ribbon with it's nice shiny buttons for when the right one just happens to be there when it's needed 
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giuchici wrote: I may see the utility of the ribbon for users that are starting to use Office, or previous light users that are still able to find all their functions in the ribbon. However, for me ... I'm still looking for almost 10 commands that previously I could find easy in the menus or toolbars (as somebody else mentioned). For example working with styles in Word became hell for me, ... anybody else?
Why not keep both options menus + toolbars along ribbon and allow switching?
To introduce a learning curve in software I've been using for years successfully is very irritating. The only software I know that does it are ones that have a lock on the market (e.g., Word, Quicken). In a truly competitive market no one would dare make their product unappealing for their established user base. I get very frustrated at Microsoft when using Word 2010 and I can't find something I did for years using Word XP. Ex[experiences like that multiplied by the number of power users may help (though not completely) explain the very poor reputation of Microsoft among the those in the know.
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Most of my users use Word to edit pre-existing documents and use my Addin which appears as a menu item next to the "View" menu item and a small subset of the formating toolbars (Font/Bold,Centre and a few others). Under Word < 2007 all the fuctions the user ever used were available on the one screen, no addition clicks required.
Now with the ribbon they must click on the AddIn ribbon to get to our feature and then they lose all their formating functions. Anytime they want to do some minor formatting they must find the right ribbon and select it and find the required function.
THE RIBBON INTERFACE MIGHT BE GOOD FOR NEWIES, BUT ONCE THEY BECOME PROFICIENT IT IS COMBERSUM.
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Are you aware it's possible to customise the entries on the ribbon? Right Click > Customise Ribbon
Oh, and
Member 3717204 wrote: COMBERSUM
That would be 'cumbersome'. [/language-nit-pick] 
Don't forget to rate my post if it helped! 
"He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends."
"His mother should have thrown him away, and kept the stork."
"There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure."
"He loves nature, in spite of what it did to him."
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dawmail333 wrote: Are you aware it's possible to customise the entries on the ribbon? Right Click
> Customise Ribbon
1) You can't customise the AddIn Ribbon Tab
2) You can't add an AddIn to an existing Ribbon.
3) I did mention they were Users not Developers.
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I like to instead ask, what was wrong with using toolbars? Was the concept "broke" somehow?
Also, I don't need a special "Fluent UI" license to use toolbars.
BTW, you did obtain a license for those 3rd party ribbon products your using...right?
Office Fluent UI licensing[^]
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bob16972 wrote: I like to instead ask, what was wrong with using toolbars?
IMHO, nothing at all
See if you can crack this: b749f6c269a746243debc6488046e33f
So far, no one seems to have cracked this!
The unofficial awesome history of Code Project's Bob!
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
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bob16972 wrote: Was the concept "broke" somehow?
If it isn't broken, fix it until it is 
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
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Spoken like a true senior software developer. So, so, so true.
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Mark Nischalke wrote: If it isn't broken, fix it until it is
I believe I saw that on a Microsoft brochure somewhere....
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"If it isn't broken, you're not trying." -- Red Green
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bob16972 wrote: what was wrong with using toolbars?
Nothing is really wrong with using command line - it is just that it is too hard for non-technical people to catch up. Ribbon is easier to get started with - that's about it.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: it is just that it is too hard for non-technical people
It's a good thing non-technical people didn't exist in the office place before the ribbon came out. Productivity would have come to a standstill back in the 90's. 
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 It is not about coming to a standstill - people were coping with command-line interfaces before GUI became prevalent. It is about the amount of effort and frustration involved in the process.
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