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The "He stated it" statement has nothing to do with my point, which you apparently missed entirely. Spelling it out for you, the point is that the hostilities pre-date the existence of the State of Israel.
The wall - which is mostly barbed-wire and electronics - despite what the BBC wants you to see - was erected for the purpose of reducing the bombing of families eating in restaurants. Guess what? Another point you choose to ignore is that since the building of the wall, the bombings in Israel have dropped dramatically (the recent attack was via the Egyptian border).
You claim Hamas said it was 'fine with Israel' - how is the world do you neglect the text of their charter, calling for destruction of Israel? What type of fairy-land argument are you trying to make?
Best of all (or should I say, most obnoxious?) is your continued turning of the facts on-their-head. Israel has already offered Arafat everything he could possibly hope for, including part of Jerusalem - and it wasn't good enough. They have given land, even clearing out their settlements - and all it has received in return is thousands of rockets and mortars. The self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza is rife with corruption, murder, and intimidation. The hardship is of their own making (Arafat, their beloved leader, stole $Billions). As for settlements? A ten-month moratorium had no results . . . until it was about to expire. Then the PA was willing to consider talks - but only for more moratorium. Sorry, kids, that's not how things work.
How would England handle someone lobbing rockets and mortars into Birmingham? Historically, you fire-bombed cities, like Dresden. By contrast, the Israelis dropped leaflets warning civilians an attack was imminent. No wonder you hate them so much! Something more current? These misunderstood friends of yours set off some bombs in your Underground - so you shoot an innocent unarmed electrician to death. The whole EU seems to run and hide (in the states, we'd say drop pants and bend over) because some mullah screams he doesn't like the cartoons you print in your newspapers!
Seems to me that, with that much control on your media, you've been fed quite a feast. My cat would bury such fare. Clearly, a product of your environment.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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No, my point is that when the hostilities started is irrelevant to the current position.
The wall - which is mostly barbed-wire and electronics - despite what the BBC wants you to see - was erected for the purpose of reducing the bombing of families eating in restaurants
Such attacks were always rare, most attacks are unguided rockets. But there's nothing wrong with building a wall to protect you – inside your own territory. I imagine the Spanish would be quite annoyed if we built border structures around Gibraltar two miles into Spanish territory.
You claim Hamas said it was 'fine with Israel' - how is the world do you neglect the text of their charter
I don't think you read my post, since I even mentioned the charter in it. Hamas offered an indefinite long term ceasefire to an Israel within its defined borders. Considering what their charter says that is as close to 'we're fine with it' as the leadership can say without being removed, and that would quickly become de facto acceptance if accepted.
A ten-month moratorium had no results . . . until it was about to expire
All that was was a temporary suspension in taking even more land. The removal of (illegal, let's remember) settlements in Gaza went a bit further, actually improving the situation slightly, but during that time many more were built in the West Bank, so overall Israel took more than it gave back.
Historically, you fire-bombed cities, like Dresden
That is completely different, as it was during a declared state of national war. I also doubt you'll find many Brits supporting that with the benefit of a modern perspective (everyone learnt a lot about the destructive power of air bombing in WW2). A more reasonable comparison would be the IRA, though they were less aggressive than some Islamic groups, and we never sent military forces, bombed cities or assassinated people outside our borders (instead cooperating with the state from which they were originating).
These misunderstood friends of yours set off some bombs in your Underground - so you shoot an innocent unarmed electrician to death.
Laughable. There was a national outcry about that, an investigation and although personal charges weren't levelled against the killer the public certainly doesn't support such things. The Israeli army kills Palestinians (and Lebanese on occasion) as a matter of course; there is no public complaints and no investigation for every death they cause.
I find it hard to believe that you can make such a comparison in a serious post – that and the Dresden reference lead me to believe that you are simply trolling, to be honest.
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Trolling - good point - now you can safely ignore anything that you find disturbing to your personalized versions of reality.
The bombings (of civilians) were rare? How quickly you (choose to) forget. They were an all too frequent occurrence. The rocket attacks being (at the time) more than a rare occurrence. They occur now because the Israelis were foolish enough to clear out of Gaza (and for nothing in return, as a symbolic gesture, in hopes of initiating honest negotiations).
Since you bring up 'illegal' settlements - perhaps you ought to take note that there are no recognized borders, but rather, armistice lines, including the 1967 borders, and even the pre-1967 borders. And, as noted earlier, no one screamed 'occupier' when Jordan had the land for decades. No one ever considered these people a national entity until is was convenient to use them as cannon fodder when Egypt made piece (repeat).
BobJanova wrote: The Israeli army kills Palestinians (and Lebanese on occasion) as a matter of course;
That ever amazing logic - you shoot armed people trying to kill you. You shoot people setting up rockets to shoot at your citizens, you shoot people wrapped in explosives looking for a crowd of people to kill, and most important of all, in my opinion, you locate and exterminate the vermin that send them: wherever they hide.
BobJanova wrote: A more reasonable comparison would be the IRA, though they were less aggressive than some Islamic groups, and we never sent military forces, bombed cities or assassinated people outside our borders (instead cooperating with the state from which they were originating).
A rather English point of view: Ireland was not your borders, but an obviously occupied state. You had troops on the ground (or were they imposters). There's not an Irishman I've met who doesn't know you're occupiers of what you refer to as Northern Ireland. And, of course, you should remove those English who are nothing less than occupiers in the area, and who you use as proxies as counterfeits for local support. Was that IRA comment you included in you post as bait for me? The fact is that you can't smell your own.
The analogy of blitz:Dresden vs. Gaza-rockets:Gaza-Siege still stands firm - with the notable difference that the Israelis leafleted the areas to try to minimize civilian casualties. Tens of thousands of dead in the non-Military city Dresden vs. hundreds in the source of the rocket attacks by terrorists who deliberately attack with civilians in the area? You're may be right: there is no comparison. What is apparent that, even in adverse conditions, so far as is possible, Israelis do their best to take the moral high ground.
There is no doubt that innocents were killed - but then, when you shoot rockets from next to a school house, isn't that the real hope? Get more (of your) sympathy with tragic photos? And never do you ask why they not only billet amongst civilians but make it a point to attack from their midst. Face it: Hamas/Hezbollah make good media capital on each human shield that get killed.
Despite your opening, with what you imply are a peace-loving Hamas, I will not label you a troll. Between BBC World reports and short wave news, I know just where you are coming from. Goebbels new well that if you keep repeating a lie, no matter how absurd, it will come to be believed. You are a true believer.
I'll repeat this as often as necessary, for it defines succinctly the Middle East situation:
The day the Arabs lay down their weapons, peace with Israel will break out immediately.
The day Israel lays down its weapons, there will be genocide.
At this point we will clearly be just baring our teeth at one another in a circle. Write what you will in reply, but lets agree on one thing: the Lounge has heard enough of this for the present.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Quite (to the last sentence). I will just make two small points: firstly, Northern Ireland is recognised by the whole international community (including the government of Ireland) as part of the United Kingdom – comparing it with modern occupied territory is not reasonable, whatever you might think of early 20th century (and earlier) events. And secondly, if you're resorting to calling the BBC a Naziesque propaganda instrument, I call Godwin.
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digital man wrote: Big waste of time. Might be easier to relocate Israel to West Texas.
Especially after you factor in the global costs of the conflict going nuclear; IMO not a question of *IF*, but *WHEN*.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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digital man wrote: Might be easier to relocate Israel to West Texas.
I haven’t read your post before posting, but great mind thinks alike. 
There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet!
Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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The border question is a tricky one. I think securing it has to be an inside job. Palestanian authority (hopefuly an elected government) would need to be equiped to do the border control. UN can help. Something similar to the job they are doing on the South Lebanon borders.
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I have an idea. It’s obvious that there is no solution until Israel is where it is. They are hated to dead from all their neighbors and from big chunk of their own population. Live the Israel to Palestinians to see what they will do with it (a huge scrapyard) and give the Jews some place somewhere else. Now about 5-6 million Jews live on only 20K square kilometers half of which are deserts and have to have even their women serve in the military and keep nukes just to guaranty some fragile security to their state. What if some big not overpopulated country gives them their 20K square kilometers good land and solves the issue? US and Canada are both over 9 million square kilometers and Russia is 17 million. Also all these countries are responsible for saving the Jews during WW2 so they have obligation to them
I know this is impossible, but it sounds really good! The Jews made a garden from the desert I’m sure they will be even better in a normal land and finally they will find some security and peace. F*** the symbols, Jerusalem and all the sh*ts. The people are more important than the land.
There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet!
Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
modified on Monday, September 12, 2011 11:34 AM
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That's what we told the Cherokee.
Software Zen: delete this;
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What? “It’s gonna be tough but the survivors won’t pay any taxes”? I think it definately will works this time.
There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet!
Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Hadn't seen this before I posted something not dissimilar above.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
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So there I was, sat in front of the computer when my wife walked in.
"What are you doing?" she asked.
"Just looking for some cheap flights dear" I replied.
She smiled and got all excited, which was odd, as she has never before shown any interest in Darts.
------------------------------------
I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
CCC Link[ ^]
Trolls[ ^]
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You're cruel. But, then you're an accountant.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun
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A new 'standard', 'the Microsoft way'?
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler.
-- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong.
-- Iain Clarke
[My articles]
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: Google Dart to replace JavaScript
That is very bold statement.
I dont think it's that easy to replace javascript. you can replace java/C# but it's very dificult to replace javascript.
also I dont understand that, why we need a 'structured programming' when today evrything else is in OOP?
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Arghhh, I'm just getting the hang of js / jquery on a Asp.Net mvc 3 project!
So much for keeping up with technology.
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Jacquers wrote: So much for keeping up with technology.
Trust me. Keep learning JavaScript! This will NOT replace JavaScript. At least, not for many, many years. You can always learn Dart on the side just in case, but you will need to know JavaScript for many years to come. That knowledge will not go wasted!
The world is going to laugh at you anyway, might as well crack the 1st joke!
Have you tried turning it off and on again? Have you tried forcing an unexpected reboot?
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I suspect it will be as successful at replacing JavaScript as VBScript was. This is yet another Google attempt to control the way the web works, and I suspect that very little will come of it.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote: I suspect it will be as successful at replacing JavaScript as VBScript was
My thought exactly. They keep pointing how JavaScript is "flawed" which no-one disagrees with, but being flawed is almost a requirement for a language to be successful: Fortran, Cobol, C, C++, Perl, Java, VB/C# - all of them are flawed and nobody cares. "Non-flawed" languages like Scheme and Haskell are used pretty much only as education tools.
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"Non-flawed" languages like Scheme and Haskell are used pretty much only as by education academic tools.
FTFY.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Marc Clifton wrote: Go Google!
I saw what you did there!
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