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Where do you live that you have to deal with that sort of stuff? Maybe I don't want to visit Texas now! I live in St. Louis which has very high crime when you look at the numbers and I don't feel unsafe. I don't need a gun either. I have never been robbed, but it could happen some day. If it does, I'll hand over my valuables and have a great story to tell later. Its just a wallet and phone.
Maybe I'll start packing a gun when they ingrate it into a smart phone.
Hogan
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snorkie wrote: Where do you live
Planet Earth. Same as you.snorkie wrote: over my valuables and have a great story to tell later
Unless they shoot you in the head so you won't be able to identify them.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun
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I believe that John's point was that you don't have to do something stupid in order to wind up in danger.
To answer your point, you don't have to live in a "dangerous" neighborhood to have your house broken into and a convenience store in a "good" part of town can be robbed just as easily as one in the "bad" part. If you happen to be there when it happens and if the bad guy decides to leave no witnesses, you're screwed if you have no means of defending yourself.
snorkie wrote: I'll hand over my valuables and have a great story to tell later.
It's not about the valuables. Things can be replaced and generally aren't worth someone's life. Your life, however, can't be replaced. If you hand over your wallet to the mugger and he decides to go ahead and kill you just to make sure you don't have any extra change in your pocket, you aren't going to be telling any stories, great or otherwise. That's where defending yourself comes into play -- not as a means of keeping your "stuff".
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snorkie wrote: Where do you live that you have to deal with that sort of stuff?
I don't have to deal with it, but I'm not naive enough to assume it won't ever happen to me. Look at the way people are acting ALL OVER THE WORLD, but especially here. Mobs attacking individuals, people stealing stupid crap (hair extensions, street light poles, air conditioning units, entire metal buildings), home invasions, etc, and that's just to name a few of the things. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood, but a gas station less than two miles from my house was robbed last weekend. ALL of my neighbors have had their houses broken into at least once in the last year. We had someone try at our house, and our dogs scared 'em off. I live just north of the drug cartel border.
In my view, anyone that walks around here that ISN'T armed is crazy.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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How did that make you feel?
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Gave him a massive hard-on I would say.
==============================
Nothing to say.
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Like a free American. How'd it make you feel?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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i would never be in that situation, so probably would never know.
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Speaking as someone who has to deal daily with the anger, frustration, and aggressive behavior displayed when people feel unempowered and threatened by situations beyond their control, you escalated the situation unnecessarily. You would have been better off offering to explain your views in a calm, reasonable manner.
Instead, you've contributed to a situation where you now have two highly motivated people who will likely advocate for tighter gun control laws to anyone who would listen as a direct result of their personal experience with you. It seems more pragmatic to value your ideals above the short-term pleasure of machismo.
- F
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It is rare I agree with you, but 5.
==============================
Nothing to say.
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I didn't escalate anything. They cam onto my property.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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That's an incredibly immature attitude.
- F
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Thankyou Jon. Your example just stopped me from acting like an a**hole.
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Nothing to say.
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I don't think anyone can stop you from doing that.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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True, but it is noce to have examples to keep one from making a total arse of oneself. 
==============================
Nothing to say.
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Checked this thread out again this morning and I see that you received 29 five votes so far. Not bad, not bad. 
Just along for the ride.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
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You know, I find it interesting that sitting in one's yard is some sort of escalation. In any event, for those of you in denial about random violence here's an example for you:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20110927_Chased_home__Mob_attacks_man_in_his_house.html?c=r[^]
A "crowd" kicks in his door. He has 4 children in the house. One "citizen" has a gun. They are very lucky this man was not trained in the use and had at his disposal a firearm. If you knock on my door, need dinner, I will feed you. You kick my door in and threaten my family, you have forfeited any benefit of the doubt. Anyone want to bet the armed-perp is not licensed?
As for the thought of handing over your valuables, you better get a reality check. 20 years ago, the police use to recommend this, then they noticed that the burglaries became more violent. The predators learned you've been taught not to resist. Same attitude and conditioning that let a handful of killers hijack 4 airliners.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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A good argument for guns as deterrents to violence is examples of situations where guns are successfully used as deterrents for violence.
Not, as you've posted, incidences of violence where gun advocates use their imagination to speculate on a better outcome if the victim was armed.
- F
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No, you misunderstand my point. Consistantly it has been shown that those who would harm you are typically not motivated to avoid the situation. The purpose of a firearm in self-defense is only margianlly based on deterence, more so to simply stay alive.
Whether or not it deters a bad person is secondary to that point.
Note the article - it wasn't until they had been struggling for minutes that the police arrived. He's very lucky he isn't dead. And, armed, trained citizens have demonstrated again and again that when you need it, it's nice to have. You just won't read about it that often... sort of runs counter culture to the main stream media.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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So you're suggesting that the benefit of having a gun is the ability to shoot someone in self defense and save your own life (and not to prevent violence) but you don't really have any statistics or evidence for it because nobody documents it?
That puts those of us who like guns as a hobby but who would like to weigh the seemingly minimal benefits of carrying/owning a gun against the significant, proven risks of available impulsive lethality (accidents, homicides, suicides) in a pretty difficult position.
- F
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Hmm, how do I say this nicely? Not gonna happen!
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. "
— Hunter S. Thompson
My comedy.
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While I sympathize, this is written as such an all or nothing proposition that I would NOT sign it as is.
"Under the patent office's current activity, patents have been come a way to stifle innovation and prevent competition rather than supporting innovation and competitive markets. They've become a tool of antitrust employed by large companies against small ones."
Amen brother, I'm with you.
"To return sanity to the software industry - one of the few industries still going strong in America - direct the patent office to cease issuing software patents and to void all previously issued software patents."
Uhmmm, no. That's entirely too extreme. I have no doubt that there are some decent patents that deserve protection. Do those guys get screwed? Why can't we just void the extreme cases? Or maybe there's no way to differentiate?
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Jim Crafton wrote: I have no doubt that there are some decent patents that deserve protection
Clippy, for instance.
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